Lets Make a Private Forum

[JPPLAY]

Originally Posted by Pastor

All I can say is, if you don't like what deeper blue has to offer then start your own forum! Hell I'll even help you!

All this thread is about a suggestion for the community to help make deeperblue better. I am not trying to change deeperblue into something it is not. Can you think of ways that private forums would be a positive influence on the forum?

[tylerz]

Where does that comment come from? I have found Stephen is quite interested to explore what new things his site can offer to assist the community. It has evolved significantly since I have been a aware of its existence. Doing disparate things only diminishes audience and increases complexity for the end user. Nobody in the tech community purposefully sets that as an objective, they actually attempt the complete opposite.

As much as Jame's reasons for having this functionality may be he his own, that is not the issue here. The issue is "whether there is a reason" to have such functionality and if so, Stephen may be "glad" to incorporate it.

[tylerz]

And to be clear, DB offers private functionality already, so the suggestion is not a redirection of DB's interests or an exclusion of people. The suggestion is taking what already exists and merging two types of functionality (private mail and discussion threads/forums) to better accomplish what already takes place on DB (private discussions back and forth amongst specified audiences).

[Adrian]

I like Tyler's comments about functionality as a premise for consideration of creating a private forum or not. It seems a pretty balanced and logical way of thinking. At the same time part of the joy of being on DB is the vast variety of freediving experience and knowledge brought onboard by all the different people and cultures represented and personally I prefer to see all forums here open for all members. Imagine if one day I want to go to Canada, I have a mine of information right here at my fingertips.

I think that jpplay simply would like to have serious posters so that one would not have to wade through the useless posts that pop up once in a while, not for exclusion, but rather efficiency.

Remember that if there is a person who is consistent in contributing rather useless posts, one can always add them to the "ignore" list, making all that user's posts invisible to you.

[tylerz]

So, the big concern with a private forum seems to be that people feel there will be valuable information present in such forums that they may no longer have access to. Correct?

Solutions:
1. private forums are publicly visible; read only.
2. private forums are absolutely private, but after an expiry time they become public. Extensions on the time could be requested.
3. one or a combination of the above where the owner of a thread can toggle the thread between private and public until a public post occurs. Such threads would be flagged as not permanently private so users could decide ahead of time whether to participate or in what fashion.

However, I find focusing on the idea that information will be kept from you, and that you would consider this information relevant to you, seems to lack recognition or acceptance that the system already does that, that people have the right to determine that for themselves, and that it is simply a tool like all other functionality that has the ability to be used in a constructive or destructive manner. I have private discussions with people through DB private messaing, in person, in emails, and in other forums. So, am I harming the community by doing so? Is it detrimental? Sometimes we wish to flush something out before we commit it to public. Sometimes we want to interact with our close circle only. Do you have a right to know that I am going to go train at the pool with my friends doing apnea until we each samba? (not true but it is an example) Do you have a right to know that I am going for a world record and the discussions with my close friends about technique, strategy, etc? Maybe once my record is over I will toggle the whole discussion for public, but there was a value to me at the time to have it private.

I think it would be easy to implement private discussions that can be toggled public and therefore only threads that the participants saw a value in being kept private, would, and I believe people deserve the right to make such decisions. As a matter of fact you can't stop them from doing so. So, is it more constructive to push them a way from a resource that inspires exchange because they have the other need? The point is the private discussions will occur no matter what. So, the real question is what is the balance of gain vs. loss by explicitly supporting them?

It looks to me that the fear of being cut off is clouding our vision of what is likely. There is definitely implicit gain in having private discussion support. I am sure we can all agree on that. So, is there a real loss if this support were added? Well above I state the obvious that private discussions will persist with or without this functionality, therefore by adding it, we are not suddenly creating the new possibility of private discussions. Therefore, the only argument left is does private functionality inherently promote a loss of relevant information from the public forums. I don't see this as likely especially if some of the features I suggested above are employed and expanded upon. Most posts would be initiated in the public forum unless the owner wanted to have a private discussion with his circle of acquaintances. If as they go a number of them sense that this would be in any way relevant to a general audience and does not affect their need for privacy, then they release it to the public. Simple. Everybody is interacting in one integrated environment and everybody's happy.

No?

[ynoga]

WOW......I am actually amazed that this discussion is still going on or even started for that matter. I actually have some questions about this proposed "private forum".

Who gets to be in it?

Can you simply sign up for it? (you already simply sign up to post here)

What special criteria need to be met to get in the "private forum"?

Who decides on the criteria?

How do you verify people are meeting the criteria?

If the "private forum" is only for a select few, seriously, what is wrong with email????????

Personaly I believe somethings are getting out of control. It is not a convienent society anymore, it is an accommadating one. It is not good enough that we can instantly contact someone, we have to have 12 different ways to instantly contact someone. I reason, that this is because most people have about 12 different personalities and they all want something different to satisfy themselves.

But heay, what do I know..........????

[tylerz]

whoever the moderator adds to it, yes, whatever the moderator(s) outline, you think about it, best emphasized by a question "why are you not using email for this discussion?", nothing to comment on the last one.

[deep thinker]

Ok so there has been alot of reasoning why to have and why not to have a private forum for a certain group of freedivers and spearos, but say you do get a private forum, and now another group wants one. Heck what if the boys from Gurnsey, Cornwall and us here in cape town who all started dedicated threads for our specific areas wants private forums in wich to discuss our diving endeavors.
Dont you think it will be counter productive to the whole idea around DB (sharing and reading other peoples ideas and stories) Cause if you make it available to one, you have to make it available to the whole comunity and I can bet you that some of the new comers to our +12000 strong membership will just disapear cause they dont find any interest from other older users who have all gone off to talk in their own little private forums.
Like Sara and Adrian said become a supporter or use the ignore button if you really want a private forum but dont exclude and disrupt the larger group of people who visit the site regularly and make it enjoyable for the rest here.
Its just a fact that if one has it others will want it and that I feel will cause disruption and lack of interest in a site we all find very usefull and entertaining at any time of the day...

[Stephan Whelan]

OK folks - i'm really surprised to see such a debate going on.

I offer a facility where clubs/groups can have a hosted forum on here. An assigned Moderator(s) are given moderation functions in that forum and they are free to run it pretty much how they want. This has worked well for SaltFree and Altasub so far.

I don't mind if groups want to join in or not. The idea is giving them an established forum system that is maintained by us and tap into the wider DB forum group of 12000+ members. I'm not even adverse to having groups be private if they want to (most members wouldn't even know it's there as it doesn't show up for them). There are a number of private forums here on the site that most members don't see (for a variety of small groups that want to keep there discussions in private).

I really don't see this as a huge debate as, from my perspective, i'm just trying to provide a good, free service to help other groups out and it is up to that group to decide how they engage with the community and if they want to be public or private.

[tylerz]

Actually, I was responding with the absolute idea that it would be an unlimited number of private forums for all to create. No different than public forums other than who is participating.

Let me repeat, it is already being done!

Deep_thinker, and others with the same conclusions, what do you think supports the idea that older users, or any significant number of users will disappear into private forums? Are you aware that some people already do so at this time? Are you aware that many do not? Why do you think the large part of DB users currently are not disappearing into private forums and what would motivate them to do so if private forums were available?

I have not yet seen any argument to support these conclusions that a "better" private forum will disrupt DB's ways. If one has been made please point me to the specifics. I have made arguments for both the benefits and why I don't see it as disruptive, backed with factual information that can be critiqued point by point. However, I do not see any of my points addressed or used in further responses. Nor do I see anything factual or any sign of a train of reasoning for the opinion that private forums will be disruptive.

So, if the argument is to progress there needs to be some constructive and thoughtful criticism.

[tylerz]

Ah, was writing while Stephan responded.

Thanks Stephan for clarifying things and for the great service.

[deep thinker]

Im saying that on the conclusion that if someone has a place where he can converse with divers only from his area, why would they feel the need to view threads from other areas if the ones from his own private forum satisfies his needs and his needs wont be intrigued by outside views (ie posters from different areas with something usefull to say that wont be allowed to post in a read only forum visible to the general community) sure they are still free to browse but do you really think that they will do so on a regular basis if they have somewhere where they can converse with people in the same area than themselves?
Ag never mind Im happy with the way DB operates and dont have any problem with what the next guy does and as Stefan says there are allready private forums so why not have more...

[Old Man Dave]

The Guernsey thread is one of the most viewed places on DB. Guernsey is a very small island with a handful of spearo’s. There are no huge blue water fish, no crystal clear vis, no tropical sunshine and yet because of DB thousands of people know of it.

Why am I saying this? Well because it is in essence a private thread. Probably 90% of posts are from less than 10 local spearo’s. The other 10% or so are welcome contributions from others around the world.

Seems to me therefore that starting a yearly thread for your area can be effectively a 90% private forum and yet can be enjoyed by the wide world of DB members. Well it’s worked for us anyway.

For this reason if for no other I think strictly private forums access would spoil DB. The whole open access internet world of DB has hugely invigorated spearing and freediving in Guernsey. DB has helped to encourage and support newcomers and even taught us old dogs some new tricks.

It is easy in these type of threads to lose it and express your own opinion by ridiculing others. I don’t think private threads would be a good thing and probably the degree to which they are currently available is sufficient. However I respect others have the right to disagree. This openness and the role of the mentors makes DB the success it is. Long may it be so.

Dave

[Erik]

To me, DB has always been about community and diversity. I'm not interested in segregation, nationalism, provincialism, elitism- too much of that in the world already thanks.
DB forums are not simply about diving and hunting: there is a much higher purpose!

[Pastor]

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