Specialized guns - Page 2

Oldsarge · #16 May 10th, 2006

Baja California is a hellhole of the drug trade and the smugglers are among the nastiest people on Earth. Instead of regular police, then, the Mexican government mobilized the Army and all non-military firearms are illegal including airguns, hence pneumatic spearguns are a no-no. Damn!

spaghetti · #17 May 11th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldsarge

Baja California is a hellhole of the drug trade and the smugglers are among the nastiest people on Earth. Instead of regular police, then, the Mexican government mobilized the Army and all non-military firearms are illegal including airguns, hence pneumatic spearguns are a no-no. Damn!

Jolly Unfortunate! You'll have to do cave hunting with non-specialized guns!

jimqpublic · #18 June 30th, 2006

It's my understanding that all spearguns were banned and Jay Riffe lobbied the government to allow spearing. Since of course his are powered by rubber bands*... you get the rest.

Of course it's probably easier to convince someone that a rubber band powered device is not as threatening as a compressed gas gun.

*Source: Read somewhere on the internet, circa 2006.

Oldsarge · #19 July 1st, 2006

That's got a kind of dubious internet rumor sound to it. Giving a source would make that statement more believable. Sorry, but us historians have this obsession for footnotes and citing sources.

Mr. X · #20 July 5th, 2006

Sarge, I'm curious as to what your current all round west coast gun is?

I have also been thinking about a cave/reef/gulley gun. The Foxy Bros. & Gunernsey spearos are a major influence these days, so their enthusiasm for airguns has piqued my interest too. Although, I must admit, I feel a strong affinity for band guns -- just love the simplicity of them (I'm sure archers would understand this).

I have a SeacSub apnea catalog next to me. It features Single & Dual Power Asso pneumatics (the muzzle looks remarkably like the Mambas). They are available in sizes inc. 30cm, 40cm, 55.5cm (the 50), 69cm (the 65) and 79cm (the 75), 90, 115 and 135cm. If they interest you, you might want to look at the DOrset 2006 thread, somebody mentioned using a 50cm Asso.

I am also thinking about something like a 60cm Cressi Commanche, possibly with a trident (Spaghetti recently explained how he uses one as his cave gun in poor viz conditions, rather than the usual pneumatic, so it can become the main gun if viz gets very bad). The fish here in the UK are relatively small & I believe tridents are supposed to be more likely to stun the fish and so reduce tangling. The trident vs. Tahiatian tip is discussed in detail in earlier threads - so I won't do it again here.

I also have an Omer catalog next to me, it features a pneumatic called the Tempest (40/50/70 with or without power regulator) and also the band powered Dragon Cave CM60 (item C602C) & the band powered Excalibur Cave (45/55/65/75) - which both feature trident tips.

Another option: You mention small gun & big spear. The other gun I am considering is a small Rob Allen. Saw a picture of a guy called Pablo with a huge Ling Cod up near Seattle using a 70cm RA railgun with reel (I used to live in the area so it caught my eye [see blottom of page]:

Although 65cm is, I think, currently the smallest size RA advertised, they will still make guns custom lengths to order. I have heard of (and seen pictures of) 50cm Rob Allen guns (see the v. short RA railgun featured on Norcal website's boogey board float project):
http://www.norcalfreedive.com/catalog/tips.php

Rob Allen offer a range of spear diameters (with names like "Stiletto" & "Thunder stick"!) & have I think the knowledge & experience to create a properly balanced gun. Equipped with one or 2x 16mm bulk rubber bands or a single 20mm rubber, depending on your preference. You can opted for a breakaway rig if you are expecting really big fish or a reel if that floats your boat.

Oldsarge · #21 July 6th, 2006

I have but very little experience, really, so what I do is ask a lot of questions and hope that the answers are reasonable. My local dive club is the Long Beach Neptunes and the Riffes all belong. So, I asked Jay what would be the "30/06" of the sea for California and he said his #3 Competitor or the #H Hawaiian mid-handle. They both pull 40". Now a lot of the yellowtail and white sea bass shooters here think that's way too light but I figure that most of my time will be spent off the beach after calico bass, corbina and halibut and if something bigger shows up, I'll either pass up the shot (hah!) or try and make sure that I am well within a 40" gun's range limit. Given the visibility near the beach, that shouldn't be too hard! So, what I did was have Steve Veros of www.poseidonsub.com build me a custom 40" gun because his prices were very reasonable and he's a furniture-builder when it comes to joinery. My kinda guy! You can see my gun on his website under photos. It's the EuroTi with the yellow bands and no inclosed channel.

For a cave gun, I've thought about either a Riffe #1 with a heavy shaft or possibly their 90 mm Eurogun, again with a heavy shaft. Perhaps I'm thinking to much like a rifleman and not enough like an archer but it seems to me that at the close ranges of reefs and caves, a larger diameter shaft has advantages over a slim faster one, especially since it doesn't have to go as far.

Pneumatics, unfortunately, are out of the question for reasons stated earlier in this thread. At least for me.

Mr. X · #22 July 6th, 2006

Riffes & custom made wood guns

. Not readily available in the UK. With Riffe being local, I can't see why you'd really want to look anywhere else. The Riffes look really good, nice quality. I am trying not to aquire fancy tastes with regard to spearguns -- but if I did, there'd be a Riffe on my shopping list! RA have hit the sweet spot for quality/price/design/robustness for me -- but if I lived next door to the Riffes, things might be different!

90cm eurogun for caves...always makes me laugh when Miles & the SA spearos go on about their "short" reef guns (100-115cm!). 90cm is a considered a big gun here (only the Guernsey guys & perhaps a few of the Cornish spearos seem to go any bigger & then usually only 100cm or so). Maybe I don't need a cave gun after all! I've been wondering if 70cm would be too long for the job ...maybe going to 50-65cm range. There is no rush though. Maybe 70cm could be a compromise low viz/cave gun.(

I don't even want to think about anymore - it makes my head hurt

).

Oldsarge · #23 July 6th, 2006

Yeah, Steve Veros and I have tossed around the idea of a really short roller gun for caves where you just stick the thing up the fish's nose and pull the trigger. Those things are probably a pain in the lower back to load but they sure are short! I can see slinging one from the float while pottering around with the mid-handle until I ran up next to a reef face then zooming back to change guns when I see an immense grouper glowering out at me. Probaby I'd just drop both of them through buck fever but in the clear, dry air it makes sense . . . probably only in the clear, dry air.

spaghetti · #24 July 6th, 2006

Mr. X, is that you in the pic with that small fish caught? http://forums.deeperblue.net/attachm...9&d=1152137320
Well if so, nice to see you (both).
Back on topic, there have been many discussions recently about rock and hole guns, also in the threads "Guernsey" (Old Man Dave made good statements) and "Congers" (me and others giving ideas). But I'm not sure they're good ideas for California too, or for Australia et cetera.
The lesson I've learned after months attending this international forum, is that the world is not all the same: an italian or a greek can't tell an american, or even an englishman, what gun is good for waters and fishes that we never experienced first hand.
However, as bisexuals claim, "a hole is a hole". I still think that cave hunting is probably the same, or at least similar, no matter what part of the world you do it. And so a short gun (no matter what brand) is more handy for creeping in narrow spaces, a good "punch" of power is welcome, expensive materials like wood and carbon are a waste, since they can get ruined against rocks, and accuracy is not an issue for short shots on motionless targets.
I think these concepts may be universal ones, but to be sure I should spearfish all over the world to verify concepts on so many different battlefields (that wouldn't be bad: I'll try to play grandma's Lotto numbers).

Oldsarge · #25 July 7th, 2006

Obviously we are all agreeing on a gun of minimal length for maneuvorability and of sufficient power to fully penetrate a large fish, even though range is much less a factor than in blue water. However, though dings and scratches are a fact of life around rocks, to me wood still has a couple of advantages. Firstly, it floats by itself. A metal gun needs to be foam-filled to get the same effect and once dinged, the foam might well absorb water "like a sponge" which would cancel the desired effect. Also, for most of us who happen to be home craftsmen, wood is a whole bunch easier to work. Even teak is more forgiving that aluminun tubing. So if someone wants a particular configuration that (for some completely unknown reason) he has decided is The Absolute, wood must continue to be the material of choice. Yes, it will get banged around but just as with a rifle stock, a damp cloth, a hot clothes iron, a bit of sanding and a couple of coats of oil and the old girl is good as new. Of course, if one isn't quite such a crank about designs and can be made happy with an off-the-peg gun, hey, go metal. Just don't let go!

GreekDiver · #26 July 7th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaghetti

The lesson I've learned after months attending this international forum, is that the world is not all the same: an italian or a greek can't tell an american, or even an englishman, what gun is good for waters and fishes that we never experienced first hand.
However, as bisexuals claim, "a hole is a hole"

amen.