Pulling in a fish after a poor / long shot.

[Pav]

I know most on this board are spearing legends! , and never make a poor shot or have to take a long shot...

BUT having lost 2 good fish recently I question what I'm doing.

I will be taking a close look at my Omer XXV before my weekend trip as have had 2 incidents where a fish has been at the extreme of my range or the spear has lacked power to pass in and out the other side (I'm not sure which is happening at the moment... range or lack of power)

Seeing a fish at the end of my spear gives me the shivers as I pull it back in to take its gill. Fear of the fish escaping of the spear past the flopper.

For what ever reason if found in a situation where you have secured a fish on the spear but the spear end and flopper have only just passed threw the fish how do you approach / retrieve the fish?

I'm also aware that not every one tightens the friction of the flopper to stay out? I thought most people tuned their floppers to stay out after a shot? I am a lot happier when I see my spear pass threw a fish leaving it secured on the line, or a shot stuns it and it rolls over.

advice appreciated. I can't see another fish escape the spear! thanks.

[portinfer]

Hi - I find (if memory serves me... haven't seen a fish for a while.. getting twitchy ) that if it is a bass it will bottom out. ie shoot it and then if it is clear water drop the gun (I take it you dont have a reel ?) and the bass will take to the weed. Then go and grab the fish - don't try to play it with the line if you think it will rip off.
At least that is my experience - not sure with other fish species...

Or buy a reel and fit it - think tht omer have a good selection ?
Ed

[Mr. X]

I usually pull the line in quickly but let the spear-line feed through my hands with light friction if the fish starts pulling - like the fighting drag on an angling reel -- for a while. Sometimes, I'll let it pull against the muzzle bungee a few times to tire itself (I'm thinking big feisty mullet) against the "shock absorber". But, if the flopper isn't open (don't think I've experienced this) or looks like it might not be fully open or might close, I try to get to the fish a.s.a.p., simultaneously pulling it in (trying to keep tension in the line) & moving towards it quickly, so that I can manually fully open the flopper. The SA downward barb tends to open easily & stay open - I haven't tried a euro spear yet.

BTW re-reading the XXV thread today, I noticed Mundial mentions cutting down his bulk-rubber band to 54cm (on this 90cm XXV Gold) as he found the standard band wasn't powerful enough for him. It does sound like it might be lack of power/range (odd with a 90cm with 18mm rubbers though) -- perhaps you are experiencing unusually good vis./range conditions & need a 100cm or 110cm version?!

Alternatively, perhaps this is an issue with the Marco B. designed spear fitted to the XXV? The recessed flopper is an unusual design. Although OMD, Mundial & Spaghetti seemed to have done well with the XXV (might be worth checking if they use the supplied spear).

I like Portinfers idea, although I can't remember the last time I experienced "clear water" (whatever that is), I keep my gun attached to my float line so I wouldn't loose my gun using this technique - and usually it floats up if there is no spear.

[ickledevil]

Have to agree with the above, although it doesn't often happen as I tend to match the viz to the gun I use but did have a shot not fully penetrate last year, combination of excellent viz and the fish being a lot bigger than I thought and therefore further away. Dealt with exactly as above kept hold of the shooting line and swam straight to the fish, very gently pulling the fish towards me as I went, got a grip as the spear dropped out. (Luckily) Only other time i've had any issues was with a spear I unknowingly blunted, first fish I hit I hit in the gill plate and got only a tiny amount of penetration unfortiunately I lost that one. Only other thing I can suggest if you think the flopper is at fault and not the range etc, is to very slightly bend out the end of the flopper to help ensure it catches and opens should it try to pull back through the fish.
Joe

[miles]

Hiya

PAV, i'm the MASTER at poor shots!!

If hunting reef fish and you've taken a long shot or a poor shot, simply drop your gun. Chances are good that the fish will bolt for the first/closest bit of cover, be it kelp, weed or reef. Once the fish is holed up, you can then either push the spear by hand, all the way through and then subdue, or using a second gun, shoot the fish again.

When hunting yellowtail, we would often second shoot our buddy's fish if the first shot is poor or is busy tearing out. Here, if a poor shot has been made, you gently play the fish, until your buddy can second shoot it, or until you can second shoot it.

Regards
miles

[Spaniard]

All the above is good advice; also, don't grab spear as you approach fish as this can give it leverage to rip itself off if spear is in soft part of fish.

[Pav]

Some great advice, cheers to all.
Mr X has highlighted the possible lack of power.

It has made me go back and look at my rigging and think I may have an issue with the spear being held back. Have re posted on the Omer thread as its concerning that gun.

http://forums.deeperblue.net/euro-sp...tml#post710229

[Pastor]

Matching the size of the gun to the visibility but not having the power to penetrate is an situation where a certain type of gun excels Imagine the power and accuracy of a 90 with the sticky out bit of a 60. No more spears bouncing off mullet heads

[ickledevil]

Mmmmm mid handled goodness

[Old Man Dave]

In terms of bass I have had a few come off. Rarely through the flopper falling closed but yes, very occasionally this has occured. Usually a poorly struck fish will tear off almost straight away.

When I have shot a bass, no matter at what range or where it's struck I immediately swim fast straight at it. This creates slack line. I then let go the gun and grab the fish, never the spear. Sometimes if I've stoned it with a head shot, especially from close range, this will be obvious but never the less I try very hard to always grab the fish never the line or spear. If the fish is going ape I grab anywhere and nearly always get spiked. I then go for the bear hug and finally the lower jaw grip. If the fish is stoned I use the lower jaw grip and don't get spiked. I never wear gloves, even in winter. I need my bare hands for the best grip and I have the scars to prove it.

Sounds easy but needs practice. When hunting indian style in the weed (my favourite) I move very very slow but need to be like the proverbial coiled spring inside , ready to shoot and sprint.

Works for me anyway.

Dave

PS I have the standard Omer 6.3 spear in my XXV Gold and the flopper is loose.

[Mr. X]

I was surprised when I discovered Pav only used one glove. Now I find OMD never wears gloves! Come on guys, this is nuts

Saw your pic of the Red Dragon on another thread Pastor -- sure is priddy. Could turn a eurogun spearos head. Yes, I too had a spear bounce off the gill plate of a large mullet (and another large fish a year or two earlier) - a 90cm railgun with 20mm rubber at that. My tri-cut spear was not blunt either.

BTW Unlike OMD & Spaniard (who have much more experience than me), I grab the spear before the fish. Fish flip about too much and I am paranoid about have the fish drive the spear into me or whack me. Once I have the spear, I feel in control.

[blaiz]

You might think of getting a reel. For small 2-3lb to medium15-20lb fish they are great. I had a shot on a 10lb uku(green jobfish) last year that was horrible. Complete gut shot only holding by about 3cm of flesh. Lucily I was able to give it alot of play with the reel. SOmehow I landed it to the surprise of all my dive buddies. Dropping my gun isnt really an option for a fish like uku. We usually hunt them in open, sandy bottom, with no holes. It would be very easy to loose your gun. I hate having a float line comming up over my head, it seems the fish just wont get close.

I swear by the reel!

Also, if its an issue of the flopper not openning, grab the other end of your shaft(the side that has exited the fish) first. This insures that the fish cant get off your shaft.

If the fish is holed up and you cant get a good grab on it give your shaft a good shove to get it through the fish.

Just some techniques that have helped me.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by Mr. X

I was surprised when I discovered Pav only used one glove. Now I find OMD never wears gloves! Come on guys, this is nuts

Nobody took the bait. Just got another pair of Beuchat gloves from Apnea today - figure my current pair might or might not last the season. The design & materials have been improved -- you might want to give them a try. Pav's glove uses a double seam, open cell interior design. My old pair has a slightly closer fitting single seam design with lined interior. The new ones are slightly smaller but made from 2mm superstretch material - very close fitting & low profile. They seem very well designed & made - not cheap though .

[spaghetti]

Pav, I think there's nothing wrong with your gun. Of course every gun has its own range limit, and you must make a friend of it. Any target off that limit is simply too far: there's not much you can do. But you can still:
1) drop the gun and jump on the fish to grab it in your hands, as correctly suggested by the other lads.
2) Optimize the ballistics of your gun with these little bits of tips, which can give only a little help, but then, as they say, every bit helps:
-remove the muzzle bridge, so eliminating any drag of the spearline crimps/knots while passing through the bridge.
-be a maniac in constantly sharpening your spear tip: the sharpest the spear, the deepest the penetration. (and by the way, the "recessed" flopper is intended for less drag in water and better penetration. It helps a bit)
-gain a bit of power eliminating the drag of heavy bungees and swivels from your spear line, IMHO I lean to think you don't need that heavy rigging for hunting bass with a single band 90.
-load at second notch if you're not hunting in narrow spaces between rocks (spears are expensive).
-a dyneema wishbone will eliminate the parachute effect of the plastic screws of a traditional screw in wishbone (this will give you a very, very little bit of extra power, but as said every little bit helps).
-If you're aware you're shooting a target placed at the very true limit of your range, try a loop shot, with a curve trajectory like a mortar shell, aiming one or two inches above it. (but this is difficult: I suggest you to do some practice with fake targets like plastic bottles to get an idea of how these shots come up).


More tips to share will be welcome...


PS- Uh, I forgot the reel. I know that Pav has a reel....
PPS-I'm with Mr. X on gloves, two is better than one for me. But over here we have fish whose bite is nasty, it's full of sea urchins, etc etc etc

[Pastor]

Originally Posted by Mr. X

I was surprised when I discovered Pav only used one glove.

I tried not to post this Pav, honest I did

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