C4 Mustang - to buy or not to buy?

[Scorp]

Hi everybody!

In the last days I read a lot about the c4 Mustangs whereever I could find something, I went through 2 very helpfull threads in this forum (http://forums.deeperblue.net/bi-fins...-mustangs.html, http://forums.deeperblue.net/bi-fins...ea-review.html) and still I am not shure if I shall make the step and buy them or not. So I decided to open another thread on them hoping that those who used them for quite a while now could help me out of my doubts.

1) I read and heard that some people are not really happy with the fact that when kicking the 2 fins tend to touch each other easily because they are quite broad at the point of junction between foot pocket and blade. One italian guy in a forum even said he gave them back because he couldnt (or didnt want to) adapt his kicking technique. What are your expiriences in this regard?

2) What about the Mustang 80, the long ones? I didnt find anybody except the DB guy billybob@tesco who reported any expirience with them. Billybob said in his thread he would tell about his Mustang 80 expiriences (wich where not the best at the beginning) later on, but unfortunately he didnt till now.
Actually I am especially interested in these 80 ones, and then again I think it could be a mistake to get them cause I want to use them for spearfishing and pool training too and maybe they are too cumbersome or to little versatile to this purpose. What do u think?

3) Of course I am indecisive about the blade stiffness in case I would take the normal Mustangs. The usual thinking around and changing ones mind again and again... Right now I use the Falcon 30, i am quite ok with them, just sometimes I feel that maybe a softer blade would also do it. What do u think: compared to the falcon 30 (for those who tried them already), are the Mustangs 25 much softer or do they give good power?

Most opinions regarding the Mustangs of course are very positiv, exstatic sometimes, and I am pretty convinced by them too. Originally I wanted to swich to a monofin isntead of trying new bi-fins, but now I think a may wait a bit and try the Mustangs before.
Thanks for any suggestions,
cheers,
Ivo

[marginatus]

Originally Posted by Scorp

Hi everybody!

In the last days I read a lot about the c4 Mustangs whereever I could find something, I went through 2 very helpfull threads in this forum (http://forums.deeperblue.net/bi-fins...-mustangs.html, http://forums.deeperblue.net/bi-fins...ea-review.html) and still I am not shure if I shall make the step and buy them or not. So I decided to open another thread on them hoping that those who used them for quite a while now could help me out of my doubts.

1) I read and heard that some people are not really happy with the fact that when kicking the 2 fins tend to touch each other easily because they are quite broad at the point of junction between foot pocket and blade. One italian guy in a forum even said he gave them back because he couldnt (or didnt want to) adapt his kicking technique. What are your expiriences in this regard? I never had that problem or feeling in 7 months... but it's a personal thing

2) What about the Mustang 80, the long ones? I didnt find anybody except the DB guy billybob@tesco who reported any expirience with them. Billybob said in his thread he would tell about his Mustang 80 expiriences (wich where not the best at the beginning) later on, but unfortunately he didnt till now.
Actually I am especially interested in these 80 ones, and then again I think it could be a mistake to get them cause I want to use them for spearfishing and pool training too and maybe they are too cumbersome or to little versatile to this purpose. What do u think?What is your goal? depht? the 80 are even softer then the 25 and the number reflect the target depht (so i read it). For spearfishing don't consider the 80 model

3) Of course I am indecisive about the blade stiffness in case I would take the normal Mustangs. The usual thinking around and changing ones mind again and again... Right now I use the Falcon 30, i am quite ok with them, just sometimes I feel that maybe a softer blade would also do it. What do u think: compared to the falcon 30 (for those who tried them already), are the Mustangs 25 much softer or do they give good power?Can´t help there. i just love my 30 but since i never tryed a 25, a can´t say that the 25 wouldn't be better for me.

Most opinions regarding the Mustangs of course are very positiv, exstatic sometimes, and I am pretty convinced by them too. Originally I wanted to swich to a monofin isntead of trying new bi-fins, but now I think a may wait a bit and try the Mustangs before.
Thanks for any suggestions,
cheers,
Ivo

It's not much but i hope it helps

[PoseidonSv]

I have not tried the mustangs yet.

I do own the C4 Flap 30 and they are a bit to hard for my taste, infact i dont like them very much at all.

I also own the C4 Flap 80 and WOW they are the best carbon fins i have ever seen.

I also have bought the longer CARBONTEK CT85 they are 5 cm longer than the C4 Flap 80 and i recently adapted well to using them.

I still like plastic blades like the OMER ICE but they are even softer and do not give same kind of drive and feel as the CT85 or flap 80.

I am worried that as you say the Mustang 80 might hit eachother when kicking them and also i am not sure how practical it is to lase the shoes every time to put them on and to take them of.

/Fredrik in Sweden.

[marginatus]

You only have to lase the shoes once to give you a perfect fit. You only have to it again if you use different thickness socks... If not it's node as any other fins. just put on and take of.

[Scorp]

Thanks for the replies!

Fredrik,
du you use your flap 80 also for spearfishing or just pure freediving? How do they behave in dynamic or surface swimming? I am a bit afraid they might be just good for pure deeper freediving and not for swimming around a couple of hours with them or for pool training. Am i wrong? I found the falcon 80 blades for really good price recently, would be an option too - dont know really
Do u maybe use a monofin too? Just to compare the 80 to a mono ...

Cheers,

Ivo

[stef]

Hi there.
I spearfish. 1 month ago I got the Mustang 25. I´d bought the Flap 25 about a year ago, but one blade cracked along the screws, and the shop accepted to send them back to C4 to be replaced in warranty. Instead of getting another pair of Flap I added about 40 Euros and got the Mustangs because I too had heard great reviews.
I'm a bit disappointed, but maybe that was because I expected too much. But then again I was disappointed when I bought the Flap a year ago as well thinking they would make a huge difference with the Cressi LD 3000 I was using.

Anyway, to answer your questions:
1. no, no rubbing for me
2. I haven't tried the 80s, but I hear they're too long and soft for spearfishing
3. before buying the Flap 25 I borrowed the Flap 30 from a friend and found them too hard for me (I am 65 kg X 1,72 m). The 25 suit me just right, and the numbers of Flap and Mustangs are very similar. I mean I did not notice any change in stifness between Flap 25 and Mustang 25.

So, should you buy the Mustangs for spearfishing if you don't own any carbon fins and want some ? Yes. Is it worth to give up your old C4 and upgrade to the new Mustang ? No.

I don't know, I think this fin thing is a bit overrrated. They don't make miracles. Time, relaxation, technique, knowledge and training do.
The more I improve my apnea and operating depths the more I like my Cressi 3000 LD, very comfortable, reliable and they do the job very well even when I fish deep (25 meters for me). I recently found myself more and more leaving the carbons at home when I go fishing. I take it as a sign of freediving maturity...

Cheers.

[Jon]

Stef,

I had a chance to try a pair of those 3000 LD's in the pool last week and was very impressed with them. I might go so far as to say that they are the best plastic fin I have used so far. In the pool I even liked them better than my C4-30's. I'm not sure how they would work at depth, but they were great for a dynamic- and not so many worries with breaking them.

I haven't used the Mustangs, but I have used my old 80's for spearing. I liked them and were fine if you had a little depth to use them in. I only sold them because I moved to a monofin for most of my diving and kept the 30's for spearing.

Just my $0.02

Jon

[PoseidonSv]

I used it only for freediving since it would be ok for spearfishing if you dont plan to shoot big fish, if you shoot big ones you need a harder fin to kick your way up fighting the fish.

The 80s work quite well for surface swimming once you learn to kick them slowly and to glide.

I never take the flap 30 to pool only the 80s I am 187cm tall 75kg normal physique.

I use a Finis competitor mono but i look for a more modern footpocket mono.

Leaderfins can make me a mono with more modern angeled footpockets and carbonfiber blade but since they dont have any footpockets one can test before im a bit affraid.

If you can buy the falcon 80 i think you should.



Fredrik,
du you use your flap 80 also for spearfishing or just pure freediving? How do they behave in dynamic or surface swimming? I am a bit afraid they might be just good for pure deeper freediving and not for swimming around a couple of hours with them or for pool training. Am i wrong? I found the falcon 80 blades for really good price recently, would be an option too - dont know really
Do u maybe use a monofin too? Just to compare the 80 to a mono ...

Cheers,

Ivo

[Scorp]

Hi stef

before buying the Flap 25 I borrowed the Flap 30 from a friend and found them too hard for me (I am 65 kg X 1,72 m). The 25 suit me just right, and the numbers of Flap and Mustangs are very similar. I mean I did not notice any change in stifness between Flap 25 and Mustang 25.

So, should you buy the Mustangs for spearfishing if you don't own any carbon fins and want some ? Yes. Is it worth to give up your old C4 and upgrade to the new Mustang ? No.

That is the kind of statement i was hoping for, thanks.
I wouldnt really consider to change my falcons 30 if I hadnt the feeling of them being sometimes too hard and tiring for me. But since, as you say yourself, the difference between the 30 and 25 is quite perceptible, I started to think about softer carbon fins: a pair of 25, and why not mustang, or 80.
You had the possibility to try the same fin (c4 25) with two different foot pockets (Mustang and ?) - where u not so overwhelmed by the Mustang pocket as most other people? Like - everthing better and easier and deeper and effortless with those Mustangs ...?
Hm - the best would really be a thing like these ski test events, just with fins - u go there, try everything u want, and at the end u know what u are gonna spend your money for.

Hi Fredrik

The 80s work quite well for surface swimming once you learn to kick them slowly and to glide.

I never take the flap 30 to pool only the 80s I am 187cm tall 75kg normal physique.

If you can buy the falcon 80 i think you should.

thanks for your statements too. They help also a lot.

I guess I know now what I have to do: buy a pair of Mustangs 25, a pair of falcon 80, a pair of Cressi 3000 LD and a Monofin (why not one of those russian hyperfins - just 400€)

Right now I came back from my first training with the finswimming club here - was really lucky that the trainer let me participate - normally just for competition swimmers. God, they are just kids there, 12, 15 years old, and they swim like dolphins, incredible!! So easy and powerful! I really felt like this while doing my beginners exercise and not getting any rhythm with this damned dolphin kick. But I am allowed to train with them for the next half year, and thats AWESOME !!
So i guess i will put this new fin question apart for a while, do a humble and constant training with my old rubber fins in order to lern monofinning, and maybe after some month reconsider the fin thing again, but that time with a mono

Cheers,

Ivo

[GreekDiver]

buy omer Rekords

[stef]

Ivo,

the difference between 25 and 30 is really noticeable. But don't expect miracles. If you find the 30s are too stiff for prolonged surface swimming, 25s will not solve the problem. You need to train. Same thing at depth: if it's hard and dangerous to come back after a fishing action at 20/30 meters, it will stay so and the 25s will not take you deeper or longer. The rule I believe in is to use the softest fins you can get away with. Use the added softness to focus on a more relaxing action, bettering your style and tire less. Don't expect performance improvements because of the new fins. This is my experience.

The Mustang footpockets are good, but I woudn't change fins just for that, they don't make miracles either. I used to have my Flap 25s with very tight Sporasub shoes and no sockets. I used to endure some degree of pain and blisters during those long hours in the water with tight shoes, but in exchange I got an excellent reaction from those tight shoes which felt like an integral part of my feet.
So, there again, no, no miracles with Mustang shoes either...

[Scorp]

Hi Stef,
thanks again for your statements. You see this fin question from a quite unbiased and matter-of-fact point of view, thats why your opinion is very helpfull.
Maybe i didnt make my position really clear: I do not expect miracles from these new fins. But i do expect some improvement - if they are like I expect them to be. I know too well how important good gear can be to obtain good performance. Better to say "appropriate gear". Its a simple truth. Could I ski on an icy ski slope the way I can do it now with my atomic race carvers using my old skis? No, I couldnt. Not because I was a bad skier last year and a good one now. Just because these skis enable a performance the old ones could never. Of course, they have to suit your abilities! Give them to a beginner and he will not make many turns... Professional gear for a neophyte makes no miracles, rather damage sometimes. And so does improper gear to the professional.
So, what I think is that maybe these softer carbon fins with the new foot pockets could match better my abilities, physical condition, way of diving, and give this feeling of a harmonic performance I sometimes dont have with the falcon 30. That doesnt mean necessarily that I will gain meters with them. Just the feeling: I love these fins ! The falcon 30 - I just like them, dont love them.

The rule I believe in is to use the softest fins you can get away with.

I agree totally! I guess when I bought my falcons 30 5 years ago I was seduced a bit by the "30" number on the blades. I know better now I think. The 25 would have done it.
And, as you say, I should try not to be seduced to much by the Mustang footpocket. Well, its not a real beauty ...

Nevertheless, I guess I will keep an eye on those Mustangs. Right now I enjoy a lot my monofin training. That draws off my attention from the Mustangs. Instead, turns it to a new monofin...

Cheers,
Ivo