how deep with a mouthful

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by immerlustig

and i wonder if anyone ever tried cw without a mask at all.

Yo Roland...
If without a nose clip and goggles then I dove unassisted like that a couple o' times when I was frolicking at the sea at 7 meters or so...
If I take my hand of my nose and don't exhale air from it water get in and get in some of the cavities, first times it feels bad but I got used to it (was trying to keep the water out actually but kept forgeting). If I equalize after water got in I feel the mistake immidiatly: noise + sharp pain in my middle ear - I pushed water in. Wet equalization by accident.
So far I've been lucky with those accidents and never had an infection (and our sea is filthy most of the year), but I try not to repeat those incidents.
Water will flow out of my sinuses spontanously some time later that day. On my keyboard for example, or on my pillow when I lay my head. Funny surprise.
It is possible to keep the water out of my nose if I don't dive vertically but at an incline and also raise my head a bit, which screws swimming posture.

As for another experiment:
Last time in Eilat Ilan (which I think you know, or will meet in seb's course) has decided to take off his mask at depth and said it feels great.
Went down and tried the same, the second the mask was off I felt something clenching at my throught. Repeatedly.
first thought in my head: "my first laryngospasm. KEWL!"
Went up leasurely and it persisted till my face were out of the water and I wanted to take my first breath. It was nice to feel the water flowing on my face though.
I see no reason to dive without a nose clip if you don't use a mask unless you want to do wet equalization (which I think should be done as the last resort.

[immerlustig]

hi,

i'm thinking about no mask diving as an alternative to goggles. i'd use a clip then, i guess. i haven't tried yet, as i'm too much enjoying looking around and actually seeing things

i wonder what vis was like on lemaster's 81m dive? i guess here with +20m vis bumping into someone is quite unlikely. i sa a picture of tanya streeter from the comp in nice (?) this year. she didn't wear a mask either.

alun, we'll most likely hold out here until mid/end december. the idea is to stay as lomg as temp doesn't drop below 23 celsius. e also have a spare room if you need a place.

cp1204, the issue here is not that air might be lost or not, but rather how efficiently you can use that available mouthfull of air for equalizing. no mask or a small mask means a deeper dive. also, the deeper you can get a mouthfull the deeper you will be able to equalise.

cheers all,

roland

[naiad]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

Water will flow out of my sinuses spontanously some time later that day. On my keyboard for example, or on my pillow when I lay my head. Funny surprise.

As for another experiment:
Last time in Eilat Ilan (which I think you know, or will meet in seb's course) has decided to take off his mask at depth and said it feels great.
Went down and tried the same, the second the mask was off I felt something clenching at my throught. Repeatedly.
first thought in my head: "my first laryngospasm. KEWL!"
Went up leasurely and it persisted till my face were out of the water and I wanted to take my first breath.

I used to get the water flowing out of sinuses thing, as I never use a nose clip or full mask in the pool.

Recently I have tried diving in the pool without mask, goggles or nose clip, and it produces a strong apnea reflex, like that produced by a cold wind blowing on my face. I didn't like it at first, but now I am used to it and it may even be an advantage.

Now I need to be brave enough to try a static or dynamic like that.

Lucia

[efattah]

Vis on LeMaster's 81m dives was 40-50m.

Keep in mind that it is pretty dark down there at 81m even in clear water. And without a mask you are five times legally blind.

[Fondueset]

I've done probably 8-10m with no mask or nose thingy - stupid in fresh water without salt to explode all the evil little organisms. Water continued to spontaneously emerge from my nose for at least 12 hours. I was very lucky nothing nested in there.

Has anyone noticed ears and sinuses equalizing separately? I don't generally need to pinch my nose to equalize - but I find my sinuses making little creaking sounds and a bit of a headache unless I make a separate effort.

[monofin_diva]

i still spit up water out of my nose when i get done.. hours later.. must be doing something wrong

[crusty]

[quote=monofin_diva]i still spit up water out of my nose when i get done.. hours later.

Haarr that used to happen when i was a young grommie surfing, used to go to school after a surf and my nose would empty itself of salt water sometime during the day and usually over my school work.
Grossed a few teachers out so i suppose it had it benifets


Crusty

[cebaztian]

Old thread of some interest even though a lot has happened since 2005.

1) So how deep do you go with a mouthfull from the surface (not eq the mask, not bringing up more)?
- me, some 22 meters.

2) And how deep without eq the mask.
- I took the sphera to 32 yesterday, amazing that it can take that (and that I can take that:-)

3) And where do you take your last mouthfill?
- me, before 30 (6.3VC, pack 1 litre)

4) If you warm up with FRC's - can you take your mouthfill earlier/later?

5) And what is your greatest depth on a full exhale in water? (as in Q1 or earlier)

Sebastian
Thinking inbetween deepdives in the Blue Hole


Anyone knowing the size of the sinuses and trachea down to the epiglottis?

[jome]

I used to be quite happy reaching 10-12 meters with one mouthfill. But after re-reading Eric's doc and some discussion later I could go to 20-24 pretty consistently and a "pb" of 27 with one mouthfill (sphera and not equalizing the mask). This of course changes the nature of the technique completely! With that kind of mouthfill you could in theory dive to 70m with a fill at 10m - which is mind boggling (of course theory is not practice)

However making such a huge mouthfill is really taxing so I don't usually do that in deep dives. I haven't really tried lately but to make that happen you need to be clearly above the RV so I'd guess around 30 is my mark for doing a "proper" mouthfill.

The kind I used to do I can actually do by taking 3-4 negative packs into my cheeks. Don't really know where that limit would be...So far I haven't had a (full lung) dive where I could not bring air up with negative packing.

I think you could scale it something like this. If you can reach on a single mouthfill at the surface:
-less than 10m - it's not really a mouthfill is it
-10m - you can sort of call it a mouthfill, but you need to do it pretty deep to be of any use
-15-20m that's pretty good if you can do that consistently
-20-25m Really good, equalization should never be a limiting factor
-Over 25m - you're up there with the best (Eric I guess has the record at 32 or something)

To make the mark reliable the trials should be FRC or less, otherwise it's just too easy to bring a little air up without even noticing...

[Kars]

Having no time an water arround to check your questions Cebastien, I want to try to give you an awnser good as I can.
1) So how deep do you go with a mouthfull from the surface (not eq the mask, not bringing up more)?
- Have not tried it yet.

2) And how deep without eq the mask.
- Have not tried it yet, but your numbers are inspireing and I will test it in Sharm at the WC. Now I do my last mask equalisation arround 30m.

3) And where do you take your last mouthfill?
- at 35-40m , Though it's not, by a longshot, a balloon cheek fill.
I find it very hard, if not impossible, to transfer the air from a ballonlike filled mouth to my ears. Though a half mouthfull works much better and I can even do hands-free with a little help from the pressure on my sphera mask. Tips are welcome offcause!

4) If you warm up with FRC's - can you take your mouthfill earlier/later?

I don't do any warm-up dives anymore, instead I warm up on land and have a buddy do a chest stretch on me. This and a warm body helps to be much more relaxed, hence it feels like I've got plenty of air at 40-50m. This enables me to my 'half-mouth-full' past 40m very comfortly, use it hands free and have plenty of air still left at 60m.

5) And what is your greatest depth on a full exhale in water? (as in Q1 or earlier)

About 7m, FI feet first, Though I must add this was breathed out deep and forcefully, having a normal mouthfull of air for equalising my ears.

I once did a few experiments with these kind of dives, and those are very extreme. Not to be done without a very capeble buddy, being warm, nearby shore and O2.
A medical student has taken my pulse (heart rate) at 5m by hand on my neck while I was sitting, because a HR monitor declaired me dead going below 30 BPM. The pulse He repeatedly registerd was a gentle, strong, and extremely slow pulse of arround 17 BPM. I had a 60-70 bmp pulse at the surface. Those dives lasted about 1'45"- 1'55" as I did it all going slowly down and slowly hand over hand up, havin a bottom time of arround 20s. Note that I did those dives without any contractions, which in combination with the huge underpressure can easily damage lungs and airways.
That's in part why I think this exercise is especially dangerous to those who cannot do an empty lung dive of 2' without contractions.

Test with caution and good circomstances.

Kars

[trux]

How deep with a single mouthfill? Well, I posted the following picture of the jazzman Dizzy Gillespie in another thread (http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediv...tml#post669749) in reference to laryngocoel (inflated larynx), but it actually belongs here too. I think that with a mouthfill like this you can get easily to 300m

Please note: the photo is not photoshoped, but it's certainly not necessary to emphasize to those who know Dizzy

dizzy.jpg