Toynbee Method Safe within 30 feet?

[James Baguio]

Hi to all! I've just new at free diving and doing some reading on equalizing.
I've come across a material saying that Toynbee Method is not safe when going great depths, because the air swallowed will "inflate" when ascending? Is this true? Is there a certain depth limit in which this method could be used? Thanks a lot!

[salibandy]

What method is that? I've never heard of that. Care to explain?

Anyway, what do you mean air swallowed will inflate? Any air taken with you on a freedive will compress when you go down, and ultimately re-inflate when you come back up. That amount of air isn't going to increase beyond the amount of air you originally took down; it isn't going to change.

So unless the air is going somewhere during descent where it cannot be vented off during ascent, you shouldn't have a problem.

Hope this answers your questions. And anyway, whereabouts in the Philippines are you located?

[trux]

Swallowing air, or water (as I saw at some freedivers) to facilitate equalizing when diving is, on my mind, not a good idea. The inflating is only part of the problems. The more dives you do in a day, the deeper you go, the more you'll inflate. You will burp some of the air back, but some may stay captured in the digestive tract and cause pain, nausea, and other problems. Swallowing seawater may lead to even more serious problems. Also, when swallowing air, you actually lose some usable oxygen.

Only small part o people are capable of efficient hands-free BTV, but why not using Valsalva or Frenzel? Unless you are a top freediving competitor and chasing great depths, equalizing with the help of the hand (or a nose clip in some cases) is not such a hassle and works with everyone.

You can find some info about diverse equalizing techniques in the documents listed here: equalize @ APNEA.cz

[trux]

Originally Posted by salibandy

So unless the air is going somewhere during descent where it cannot be vented off during ascent, you shouldn't have a problem.

No, that's not quite true. If you swallow air in depth, it will expand on the ascend and can cause some troubles. Usually nothing too serious, but it may cause plenty of unpleasant problems. In extreme cases, it could lead to a serious barotrauma, but at a freediving beginner and especially within 10m it is rather unlikely.

[trux]

Originally Posted by salibandy

What method is that? I've never heard of that. Care to explain?

Toynbee equalizing method is explained here:

Prevention of Middle Ear Barotrauma

(you can also find it through APNEA.cz: Toynbee @ APNEA.cz)

Joseph Toynbee lived in the 1800's and as you recall, he first identified the crackling sound present in ones head with the anatomical opening of the Eustachian tube during swallowing. His technique is to pinch nostrils shut while swallowing. The muscles in the back of the throat pull open the Eustachian tube and allow air to equalize if a gradient is present. Swallowing can be difficult for the novice diver, especially while breathing dry air. This technique is not recommended for rapid descent, as there is no margin for error if the Eustachian tube does not equalize on first effort. If a middle ear squeeze is already occurring, it will be more difficult for the Eustachian tube to be pulled open.

[cdavis]

I think maybe there is a little misconception here. Toynbee, as I understand it, is simply making the swallowing movement to aid equalization. Normally, at least for me, there is nothing in the swallow, neither air nor significant liquid. I suppose it is possible for somebody to swallow significant amounts of air, but it seems a stretch and isn't necessary. Anyway, swallowing is slow. Frenzel is better, more powerful and much faster.

Connor

[trux]

Yes, you can do it without completing the swallowing. Unfortunately some beginners do indeed swallow air, saliva, or water to help equalize, which then often leads to some problems.

[James Baguio]

Hi! Thanks a lot for the big help guys:-) I'm totally new at free diving and am working on my equalizing. It seems I can do the BTV on land, I have yet to try it in water.

Trux, thanks for sharing the different equalizing techniques site. I'll check it out.

Salibandy, I am from Manila Philippines. Unfortunately, free diving is really something new here. I haven't met anyone doing free diving in Manila. I took a free diving course at Moalboal Cebu (An hour long plane ride and 3 hour bus ride from Manila).

James B.

[salibandy]

Wtih Wolfgang? He's based where you went.

I should like to go to Manila one day. It's not that far from here. How's the diving there? The waters?

[James Baguio]

Hi Salibandy...Yes, with Wolfgang at Cebu were he is based. I was in Cebu for a 2-day free diving course. You should visit Cebu one time. Wolfgang knows great places to dive there. I was only able to practice dive there once since it was raining hard that time.