AIDA WCh 2007, Maribor

[Peter P]

Just feel like asking a question here...

How do you guys feel about Timo Jattu (Denmark) making a protest on Stigs 186 DNF?
I heard that Stig was pulling, but realized that he was not, since he got the record afterall...

For MY point of view it would have made sence if Tom Sietas had been there and made the protest to try to keep the rec, but Timo...??? What would he have gotten out of it?
-Protesting about your fellow contryman!
-Can anyone ever imagine being in a team with that guy?

Peter P

[Vedrana]

That is not only protest they make ( Denmark team ), ok, it is in the rules, but from my point of view is sleazy to make protest on another team or his team , it is the same stuff.

Vedrana

Croatia

[Sergiu]

I saw Stig's performance, amazing stuff! Similar for Timo who turned at 150m, very few will ever do that even with fins.

Now, i also thought it looked like pulling and I swear I was praying that Bill (the judge) will not give a yellow card! I think pulling should not get penalties, it may give one an absolutely minimal advantage but can also give one much needed help when it's most needed, at the end of the dive.

But rules are for everybody and i was afraid Stig would get a yellow, fortunately it was not the case as, he in fact did not pulled himself up on it, rather slided, according to his own account and (arguably) confirmed by video footage.

The fact that one contestant made an official complaint is not that troubling to me, if justified. This case was somewhat controversial and deserved a review to set the record streight. It happened in the DYN competition too and the complained was accepted, but there was a medal at stake there.
Here, pulling accepted, it would have been a 10 points off for Stig, giving him still the top spot, so no change in the ranking but it would have meant no WR and NR, due to penalties. And that's not worth a complaint, IMHO.

[SanSan]

I think it's good that we keep our records "clean". If it is not a perfect performance it can't be the WR, but as I heard there was something else between Stig and Timo so I think this is on a personal basis... If so I think those things should be solved somewhere else.

[O'Boy]

I saw a lot of pulling in these championships (especially from Stig), but none of it was awarded with penalty. And that I think is how it should be.

One friend told me before the DNF prelims, that Stig'd been already in the starting zone (sitting on the edge) whilst there was still another dive going on. He advised to make a protest? We probably should do it, because the rules have to apply for everybody.

Stig is for me the great champion. All these problems evolved because of AIDA keeping bad rules active and not applying strictly enough the good ones.

[Lidija]

Originally Posted by O'Boy

Lidija, if you will be sucessfull in finding your diploma you can have it signed by the guy who's butt you are so desperately missing

Wow thanx...waiting for a signed diploma than ...

[Billextreme]

There was a lot of athlete at the WC in Maribor that was in contact with a line before surfacing in DYN - DNF. How many of them that where pulling I don't know, but the number is very, very low. Some athletes where actually in contact with the line from below - without using there arms or hands to touch it. There where just to close to the line when they surface.

It's not easy to be a judge - and not easy to keep exactly the same level on all the judging all the way during 4 competition days, with 8 judges. We try to do our best. We had 365 performances during these 4 days and 99.9% was judge in highest possible standard. AND when there was a mistake we receive a protest directly and correct the judgement.

If there is a protest, the judges check the video and listen to the person who made the protest, after that the judges vote. There is no discussion/debate between the judges.

To receive a protest from a team fellow is a new thing for me. I guess it never happen before. BUT maybe he had his reason, or at least I hope so – in any way he won his protest, and so did Stig after he add more info to the case.

Have a nice day
/B

[DSV]

After speaking with Timo he explained to me that in Renens he was DQ'd (rule has changed since then only penalty now) for the exact same reason. He also shared that he did not feel good about what he was doing, but felt that an elite athlete especially in a world record performance, should perform with absolute perfection. In this case Stig did not. I saw a video that was taken from a very good vantage point (not official video unfortunately) and I also believe that the line was pulled. The other issue that Timo did not address in his protest is the fact that Stig's hand was on the line prior to his airway surfacing which is also a penalty.

In my prespective Timo had nothing to gain from his protest and felt that a top performance should not have questions surrounding it.

If Timo and Stig have issues so be it, but I have more respect for a team mate that has nothing to gain making the protest.

I personally would not have a good feeling in my conscience if a performance of that caliber was judged clean after a protest that showed it was not.

So my question is should elite athletes in world record situations be held to as high a standard as the rest of us doing non-world record quality attempts?

I am not taking away from both of Stig's performances being extremely impressive because they were.

Also why can we not have other video input from outside sources not only the "official" video which in the case of this competition was at times less than "professional". If there are not professional videographers shooting the official video we should be able to take video footage from another non-professional that may have a better vantage point. If someone wants to protest a performance and has solid video evidence from an outside source then it should be admissable in the jury room.

Just my thoughts since we really haven't solved all the glitches in our sport yet. ;-)

DSV

[H.Balázs]

First of all, it was a very well organized Comp in Maribor, thanks to the h2oteam and the whole staff. It was realy a pleasure to be there, and meet many athletes from almost all part of the world.

I'm totaly agree with your opinion Deron!
Rules are the same for anybody. But I saw many bad judge decision on the Champs, not only 0,01% sure...What was red card for no name athletes, the same performance was white for 'world rec. class' freediver!!! Hmmmm, it looks like that some off the judges interpreating the rules like in ancient times.

Balázs

[pat fish]

Several years ago I asked the question already for what reason the rule exists that the athlete is not allowed to make a pull before surfacing in pool disciplines. If the athlete was free to do so, it would be
a) benefitial for safety
b) benefitial for clarity in judge decisions
c) benefitial to simplify the set of rules
AND it would be the same for everybody. I never got any convincing answers so far why this rule is still in...
Pat

P.S. good to be back in deeperblue and to see some good friends around here

[trux]

You may want to look at this poll - http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediv...ng-survey.html - it clearly shows that the majority of freedivers (including several international AIDA judges) think the rule should be remove or seriously modified.

[Jorg]

It IS a stupid rule... And there are many more rules that I would like to see disappear. But we are slowly getting there. I was pretty satisfied with what we, the judges, did in Maribor. Especially with only 2 serious protests. That is a big improvement in previous WC's. We just let the freediver disqualify himself.

[f3dive]

Rules are the same for anybody. But I saw many bad judge decision on the Champs, not only 0,01% sure...What was red card for no name athletes, the same performance was white for 'world rec. class' freediver!!!
Balázs[/quote]

I find this comment interesting as in my own experiences as a judge I would tend to be more vigilant towards the top athletes expecting them to KNOW the rules better than those newcomers. Ok so I realise this will be interpreted as not being consistent and this is also what some of you are saying but lets face it - not even the top rugby refs get it right 100% of the time and they are being paid to do the job.
Are those of you who put the judges down ever been in their position? Do you realise how much responsibility they take on and how nerve racking the whole experience can be?

As for the line rule - it obviously needs to be either reworded or thrown out if there is so much debate about it. AIDA should begin the process to change this, with full consultation of course, otherwise some of you will be accusing Bill of changing it because he felt like it.

[Kars]

Stig showed the weak point of the edge/line grabbing rule. I hope it will be soon be corrected.

Timo, I think, did a brave thing, he actually may have contributed us with the discussion we're having here and the adjustment/abolishment of the regulations.

Sandi and all the others for a great competition! It was very exiting, and the finals and record brought some tears of joy in my eyes. I hope you have time to recover from all the worries and work you and your team have done.

Love, courage and water,

Kars

[BennyB]

And don't forget Kars and his magnificent chocolate cake!!!! Tasted great mate!

Love, piece of chocolate cake,
Ben