Mandy-Rae 88m New WR

[glennv]

p.s. While browsing for the record video (could not find it yet) i stumbled on this :

Cost: $495US and includes CAFA/USAA sanctioning fee, four days of competition, evening introduction social, awards ceremony and CAFA & USAA members sanctioning fees.

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is some hefty fee. Freediving for the elite only ???? Or do you get your own weight in gold as first price

[azapa]

congratulations on the new record. having "just about managed" 15M at the weekend I can only be in awe at your achievement. I can't imagine what it must feel like to turn at that depth and kick for the surface.....way to go!!

[jome]

Originally Posted by glennv

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is some hefty fee. Freediving for the elite only ???? Or do you get your own weight in gold as first price

My initial thought too, but then again, where is it specified that all competitions should be run on a negative budget?

I mean they had like 10 competitors, which makes for 4950$. It's not a huge sum if you consider hauling all that gear and crew to the Caymans, feeding and lodging a support team (even a rather small one) for 4+ days. Renting boats, gasoline, insurances, permits, safety divers...Not to mention they are trying to scrape a living out of running PFI, or I would imagine at least dream of such days. Throw in a prize or two, and I'd say it's not altogether unlikely, that they ended up loosing money and most of the crew still were volunteers who paid most of their way themselves.

I certainly like competitions and events run no-profit by a group of volunteers. But I would not mind seeing more professional events either, where the crew actually got paid, or at least their costs covered, prizes were real and why not, the entering fee a bit higher too. What's wrong with having a competition for "just the elite"? Not every event needs to be for every one. There are certainly enough freebie events for everyone to participate.

Now some might speculate, that the fee was put high on purpose, to keep the event small. Maybe, but what's wrong with that?

[sanso]

Mandy-Rae, congratulations! How does it feel to find one's place in the history of a sport?

[glennv]

Originally Posted by jome

I certainly like competitions and events run no-profit by a group of volunteers. But I would not mind seeing more professional events either, where the crew actually got paid, or at least their costs covered, prizes were real and why not, the entering fee a bit higher too. What's wrong with having a competition for "just the elite"? Not every event needs to be for every one. There are certainly enough freebie events for everyone to participate.

Hmm , competing just for the elite just doesn't sound right/fair if done on purpose to keep others out . If done just for profit , no problem i can live with that and makes good business sense. (I am not suggesting in any way that this comp was done either way)
I guess it is some sort of self regulating system. If you get enough competitors that are willing to pay that hefty amount, it will work and in the end you can start making your living from organising these type of events. But I can not imagine there will be very much freedivers in the long run that are willing to pay that much money a couple of times per year to be able to compete in their sport .
I guess for just the registration fee I can probably fly on a holliday to egypt , get a decent hotel and join one of Lottas event for 4 days and still have some left for a cappucino

Time will tell..........

[SanSan]

There is also a smal thing that it was an AIDA ranking comp. and it wasn't announced on the AIDA int. website until the first day of the comp.

[jome]

Well I still don't see a problem. We allow people in competition by nationality (national only competitions), and we have invitation only competitions, we have competitions where you need to qualify, and some where you don't (like the WC, now there's "elite only"). I just don't see how someones financial situation is different from let's say nationality.

I think it is rather obvious that the record didn't just accidentally "happen" on this small competition - the question is - is there anything wrong with that? By the current rules - no.

As for not announcing the competition on the AIDA website, if it was because the comp was never registered - then I guess we'd technically have a problem. But it might also have been for example a simple human mistake by the webmaster. At least it was announced in deeper blue months ago.

[DiverTodd]

Originally Posted by jome

Renting boats, gasoline, insurances, permits, safety divers...most of the crew still were volunteers who paid most of their way themselves.

Speaking as one of the three safety divers, we were all volunteers. All three of us (and all of the student competitors, for that matter) were already in Grand Cayman for various PFI courses (I was the ONLY student in the Advanced course that DIDN'T compete! Oh well, next year..). The courses ended on Friday, and the competition started with pool events on Saturday, leading up to the main event (Mandy's dive) and the start of the open water competition on Sunday. Grand Cayman is a pricey little island, and a $495 entry fee to cover costs is not unreasonable at all...

Todd

[laminar]

Hmm , competing just for the elite just doesn't sound right/fair if done on purpose to keep others out . If done just for profit , no problem i can live with that and makes good business sense. (I am not suggesting in any way that this comp was done either way)
I guess it is some sort of self regulating system. If you get enough competitors that are willing to pay that hefty amount, it will work and in the end you can start making your living from organising these type of events. But I can not imagine there will be very much freedivers in the long run that are willing to pay that much money a couple of times per year to be able to compete in their sport .
I guess for just the registration fee I can probably fly on a holliday to egypt , get a decent hotel and join one of Lottas event for 4 days and still have some left for a cappucino

Glenn,

Lotta's set up is an elite set up. The Europeans and North Americans and others from more developed countries are taking advantage of currency exchange rates and standard of living differences to have fun in competition for so cheap.

Freediving competition is a sport for the middle class. Just like most modern sports. If you really want to have a competition that is for the masses, why not have a no-equipment, unassisted comp where the goal is not depth but some other task or goal so that those people who can't afford a safety system are not disadvantaged. Something like a "coin retrieval" competition, where a man of the cloth throws a coin into the ocean and you race other divers to retrieve it without the aid of a mask or fins. Now that would be fun. Or throw several "coins" in the ocean and the diver with the most recovered coins wins.

I think $495 is entirely reasonable given the number of events and the other perks. I hope that the volunteers who were there felt acknowledged for their efforts! If Todd's remarks are any indication, they were.

Pete

[cebaztian]

Originally Posted by laminar

I think $495 is entirely reasonable given the number of events and the other perks. I hope that the volunteers who were there felt acknowledged for their efforts! If Todd's remarks are any indication, they were. Pete

Or go to Sweden and compete in 8 disciplines in the same competition for 125 euro :-)
Fridykning tävling

Sebastian
Sweden

[glennv]

Good one Sebastian

Indeed Egypt may not be a fair comparison because of the low costs there, but Sweden (or more Scandinavia) is regarded as one of Europes most expensive areas and look what they are able to do !!!!
Multi days pro setup at very low costs for the competitor. 125 Euro is more doable and I bet lots of "" elite" freedivers will compete there.

Later the Nordic deep will probably also be very affordable and still very proffesional.

I think the only valid variable I have heard is the end goal of the organisers. Is it to make money / to make a living from or not. Nothing wrong with that of course (so don't get me wrong) but lets keep it in the right perspective.

p.s. I remember a similar discussion about the latest WC in egypt whem the prices got out. Only there it was including hotel stay etc and massively more complex and expensive in organising compared to a 10 athletes comp.

[laminar]

Hi Sebastian,

How do you manage to keep your costs down? I'm assuming because you stage the open water comp from shore? That's nice!

In Vancouver, I know we have a minimum of 4-6 people for competitions because renting a boat large enough for a deep water competition (not including the boat to ferry divers back and forth) costs upwards of $600 the last time I checked.

Pete

[ggarrett]

Originally Posted by SanSan

There is also a smal thing that it was an AIDA ranking comp. and it wasn't announced on the AIDA int. website until the first day of the comp.

I saw it on the AIDA website a couple weeks in advance, I noted it because AIDA listed it both as a CAFA and USAA competition. It was not announced on the USAA network until send an email out after finding it on the AIDA calendar.

Peace,
Glen

[cebaztian]

Originally Posted by laminar

Hi Sebastian,How do you manage to keep your costs down? I'm assuming because you stage the open water comp from shore? That's nice!Pete

The deep dives are done from boats, as seen on this photo:
Fridykning
We can offer safe 80 meter dives or even 90 if we get a good weatherwindow (but its awfully dark and cold down there). Timo Jattu might just take a look down there.

Moneywise Nordic deep is possible because of a team of persons working for the sheer pleasure of being part of the event. My uncle and cousin shows up with a boat, my mother cooks, Gothenburg apnea society shows up safetydiving. The FSE team has been part if this for three years:
Avancerad fridykning
Hanli Prinsloo comes all the way from South Africa, Martin Muller comes from Berlin just to safetydive. Things like that makes it possible. And off course support from SUUNTO, ELIOS, SPORASUB, GREATH EARTH, WATERWAY - giving prices.

We have a good place to stay all in one house and depths and pool close by. All played out in the best of scandinavian summer.

Sebastian

PS. Since this is "Mandys thread" I will take the opportunity to confess that I thought she didnt have it in her. But wrong was I - now Natalja has some competition, good. And as someone else said - nice to be in a sport where a man can have some female rolemodels.

[glennv]

Well done Sebastian. You do a great job there with lots of very motivated people and I hope to attend one of your events soon (maybe next year) , when I finally get some free time on my hands.


p.s. Hopefully we see some videos soon of Mandy's amazing dive. BIG RESPECT !!!! Now it's Natalias turn again ;-)