Sharm Individual World Champs - Info & Updates

[Will]

Originally Posted by Billextreme

Put the lanyard higher up - on your chest, 10cm below your neck.
...or on your back, 10cm below your neck.

Don't you think this will work with some training?

/B

I don't think this will work.
To be 10cm below your neck the belt would need to be jammed up under your armpits, and would have the following effects:
1. restrict muscular action (latissimus dorsi & pectorals)
2. restrict inspiration vol.
3. thoracic compression during the dive would mean the belt would become loose and move down on to the hips anyway, and possibly even slide onto the legs. The only way to avoid this would be to use an extremely tight elastic belt, creating even greater problems with 1. & 2.
4. The lanyard itself is more likely to interfere with the armstroke.

Having the lanyard around the waist/hips doesn't present any of the above problems. I know the safety issues with having the belt positioned at the center of gravity, and I may be missing something (bra-style harness instead of belt?), but at first glance the chest seems entirely the wrong place to put the lanyard.

As an aside, I personally believe that in clear water lanyards present more problems than they resolve, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a serious freediving incident or death CAUSED by a lanyard before we see one saved by one (EVERYONE I know who has used a lanyard has a horror story of getting tangled at the bottom, jammed etc, but I haven't yet heard of a deep blackout victim being saved by lanyard + counterweight).

[Billextreme]

Will,

Of course we talk about a harness with straps over your shoulders.
(and under your armpits as well)

This is not complicated and there’s nothing that gets jammed or restricts muscular action. AND if you make it with right material from the beginning it will not restrict inspiration volume either. (!!!)

Interfere with the arm stroke... maybe if you don't put some training behind it. This is the same with all kind of lanyards and disciplines.

If you have a better idea where to put the lanyard, please let us know.

/B

[Will]

Originally Posted by Billextreme

Interfere with the arm stroke... maybe if you don't put some training behind it. This is the same with all kind of lanyards and disciplines.

Since in most peoples CWNF armstroke the stroke is narrowest at the point in front of the sternum (and in some cases the hands actually touch), the hands could easily catch the lanyard as they pass. Obviously training can adapt you to this and anything else: the important point is whether it forces the athlete to make compromises in their technique and style, and whether the slight improvement in safety afforded by moving the lanyard belt/harness from the waist up to the chest is worth this compromise.

Has AIDA conducted practical trials with both systems (chest & waist) to compare what happens in an emergency rescue? If you have to use a lanyard these are the only 2 options (wrist, ankle and neck attachments are all dangerous and inefficient).

[jome]

I appreciate the debate, but I think for this WC it is quite simple

It is in the rules for 2007 - there are a lot of rules that may be in need of debate, but as long as they are as they are - the athlete needs to adapt and yes, sometimes compromise. The good thing is, rules are the same for everyone. So no-one gains or looses if they all also train according to the rules.

If the rules need changing, this should be brought into the attention of the technical comission in AIDA. The lanyard system surely is not in it's present form the perfect solution but it is generally accepted as the best all around compromise for the problems. Improvement ideas are always welcome (I hope). Arguably, in good vis, using deep safety divers would be just as safe...?

[Will]

Hi Jome,
The debate is not whether a lanyard should be used but where it should be mounted. I don't know if Bill is requesting or stipulating that the lanyard should be a chest harness, but this is definitely not in the current AIDA rules (which are included below).
Hence the validity of the debate.

2.2.2
The safety lanyard binds the athlete to the warm-up line or to the official line. It is made up of;
• a karabiner without screws in which the opening (minimum 15mm) is big enough to allow the karabiner
to be placed and hooked to the line without difficulty. The "finger" of the karabiner must function
normally; in other words opening with little pressure and closing automatically.
• a semi-elastic or non elastic link between 30cm (minimum) and 100cm (maximum when stretched) in
length, made up of a material designed to not make knots (e.g. a cord, or a cord covered with plastic).
• a wrist or ankle band which cannot be removed inadvertently, which includes a ring having an interior
diameter of a minimum of 26mm for athletes wearing the lanyard on the wrist; OR a belt other than the
weight belt, which cannot be removed inadvertently for those wearing the lanyard on the waist, the belt
holding the lanyard must be situated higher than the weight belt. In this last case, the freediver will still
wear a wrist band, which cannot be removed inadvertently, including a lanyard ring of an interior
diameter of a minimum of 26mm.
• the total weight of the safety lanyard may not exceed 500gr.

[jome]

Agreed - if we play the "by the book" game, then this applies the other way too. Then again judges can reject a lanyard if they feel it is inappropriate - and Bill did say "please"

Frankly, I don't know where would be the best for CNF. I wear mine on the wrist for all disciplines, but I'm hardly pulling WR-level performances (much less competing in Sharm)

[Billextreme]

Hmm... bigger thing that I expect.


Ok, let try it this way.
Lanyard around your waist/hip/stomach will not be ok for WC.
Lanyard around/linked to your ankle or leg will not be ok for WC.
Lanyard around/linked to your head or neck will not be ok for any AIDA disciplines.

OPTIONS:
Lanyard around/linked to your wrist/arm - ok
Lanyard around/linked to your higher part of your chest or back - ok

So - please, IF you enter the competition you have to follow the same rule as everybody else, simple and fair.

I have tried out the harness with straps over my shoulders, and it’s 20 times better than have the lanyard around my waist or has it linked to my wrist.

Make a test and come back with your experience.

Regards
/B

ps. Remember that this WC don’t have FIM on the program


/B

[glennv]

Can you maybe upload a picture of such a harness as some sort of template what a good harness should look like ?

[Walrus]

I definitely agree with Will on that, having a lanyard any higher then the waist will really start getting in the way for CNF. I have done CNF dives in competition with a lanyard on the waist, once you train with it and get used to it is not so bad. Most people's armstroke does get wider at the end so the lanyard on the waist is the least disruptive. A lanyard on the wrist really is not a good option for CNF.

Bill I don't really understand, this is not in the current AIDA rules, is this then an extra requirement just for the WC ?
I understand safety is a high priority but if it totally stuffs up your technique is going a bit far. Such a major rule change should be voted upon like any other AIDA rule. The current CNF world record was done with no lanyard so AIDA rules are not all the same...

Wal

[efattah]

Unfortunately the Sharm WC is at exactly the same time as DEMA.... so you can count me out.... I think that may be the same reason Mandy isn't going either.

[Billextreme]

If you have seen the CB in action, with a freediver having the Lanyard around the waist?

I have, and it's not a pretty thing. AND for safety reason, I think that is an extremely (!) bad option. AGAIN... if you have a better place to put the lanyard, please let us know ASAP. I know that athletes have practise with it linked to your wrist, and managed to do that very well.

For me, personally, I like to have it on my back just below my neck. Then I simply swim with my back against the line. I know it sounds strange, but it works perfectly with some training behind it. (CNF that is)

When it comes to the dates of the WC, I'm sorry that it collides with DEMA. But it was this option or no competition (this time). Soo if our real athletes are more interested of DEMA than the AIDA World Championship, that’s how it is. Everybody make there own choice.

Regards
/B

[jome]

I was just thinking last night after logging off that wearing the lanyard on the back below the neck would make most sense in terms of the lifting.

If you have it on your chest, the pull would be tilting your whole head back, basically opening your airways and forcing water in at a great speed. Where as if it is on the back, it will tilt your head towards you chest and not only close your airways but also protecting the opening from the flow of water...

Not sure if I prefer the idea of swimming my back against the guide rope though - and putting 2 ropes doesn't really make sense either from a safety point of view.

Being lifted from the waist not only generates enormous drag (and probably snaps most lanyards), it greatly increases the unmentionable chance of being hit by the counter weight.

[Jorg]

Is the DEMA more important to champion freedivers then a world championship? Why is the DEMA so important?

[Stephan Whelan]

Jorg,

DEMA is one of the biggest diving trade shows in the world. Champion athletes go there to raise sponsorship, or if their primary business is in teaching freediving - the go there to generate new business.

FreeDiving is being promoted heavily by a number of companies at DEMA and we're finally starting to get some headway into getting the sport a higher profile in the industry.

It isn't essential to be at DEMA but it certainly helps in promoting the sport. Having a WC right at the exact time will cause some anxiety to athletes who also want to either (a) find sponsors at DEMA or (b) want to get more business for their freediving related business.

[Billextreme]

Hopefully they can send a business partner to DEMA, and go for the World Championship themselves.

A World Championship title 2007 would help there business more than anything else, if there into freediving that is.


/B