Sharm Individual World Champs - Info & Updates

[cebaztian]

Originally Posted by Billextreme

Ok, let try it this way.
Lanyard around your waist/hip/stomach will not be ok for WC.
Lanyard around/linked to your ankle or leg will not be ok for WC.
Lanyard around/linked to your head or neck will not be ok for any AIDA disciplines. /B

Is this aida talking? Or Bill talking. Is a decision taken in: Assembly, TC or board on this? This is serious business for us who do CNF.

Sebastian

[Billextreme]

AIDA have not take any decision in this question yet.

BUT.. tho it's serious business, and with our experience how to NOT linked the lanyard. This will be highly(!) possible.

Do you have a better way how to linked the lanyard in CNF, Sebastian?

/B

[cebaztian]

Originally Posted by Billextreme

AIDA have not take any decision in this question yet.Do you have a better way how to linked the lanyard in CNF, Sebastian? /B

It has not happened yet, but one day the antiballast will be needed and then we do not want to have the athlete being pulled up by the waist. Good that AIDA sees this problem. I my view the safety issue is most pressing for the atheletes that can not be saved by freediving safetydivers or scuba at surface that can be deployed. Most freedivers in WC CNF will probably be between 40-50 (my guess).

BUT

What I found most intresting in this thread is not the actual place of the lanyard but the fact that:

1) Bill (the athlete) trains with a new lanyard system (probably a good one and well thought out if I know Bill right).
2) Bill (the president?) ask other CNF athletes to PLEASE not attach the lanyard by the waist.
3) Several athelets protests and wants to follow the options that the rules give them.
4) Bill (the president) changes PLEASE to YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED.

Its a good idea Bill, but I personally would feel better if the decision was coming from TC (and approved by board or assembly). This IS a big thing for us that train CNF.

Sebastian

[Billextreme]

Ok...

I ask again and again for ideas to workwith, but nothing is coming.

Please, we all and the TC need ideas about where to put the lanyard in CNF.

To Sebastian, my CNF training have not started yet, but I've done some tests on 6-7 ways to linked the lanyard for CNF.

I found it irritating to have the lanyard around my wrist, it works and it's good if you have to pull someone up from depth, but it's in the way for the swim.

To attach the lanyard on the higher part of your chest is better - and on your higher part of your back the best this far.

To have it on the back is also the absolut best when it comes to pull someone up.

When it comes to have the lanyard around your waist/hip/stomach, this way is crazy when it comes to pull someone up. The safety is not there anymore, and this option is, in my opinion, out of the game. It's actually create more danger and risks in an emergency situation.

/B

(I hope there is no-one thinking about llinking the lanyard around you leg or head)

[Daić]

I would like to see some pictures what kind of system is OK. So I can make my own one and prepare for competitions.

Jure

[TheDude]

Here is an idea I just got, but I'm not that experienced, so forgive me if its complete BS

The lanyard would be attached on the chest harness, but it would go first to the waist and from there to the dive line. Simple way would be to lock the lanyard into the weight belt buckle. The idea is to have the lanyard come from the waist and not interfere with the stroke, but when being pulled, it would release itself from the buckle and the diver would be pulled by the chest. As a bonus the weight belt would be also dropped... The tricky part is you would have to be carefull not to pull on the lanyard during the dive, and I guess the 1m limit would not be enough for this. Alternative is to have it attached to a separate belt with the same principle - it would be released from the waist when pulled.

[wolleneugebauer]

I think the lanyard on the waist is enough safe for cnf.

Total safe is no freediving only!

[efattah]

I have been pulled up from 35m (simulated blackout) with the lanyard around my waist. There were no problems during the emergency procedure, although of course the ascent speed wasn't as fast as being pulled up by the wrist.

[Walrus]

Hey Dude,
not total BS I also was thinking of the same idea as you. If you had the secure point higher ie chest/back, but then have the lead atach to some sort of breakaway system that held it onto your belt. ie under normal swimming conditions would stay on your belt but with any force would unclip/break.
You would have to add at least 1/2m onto the length of the lanyard, ie still measure from the belt. Would require a change in the AIDA rule, but then what Bill is suggesting is a rule change anyway. I don't see anything wrong with a slight increase in lanyard length. I still don't know where the 1m lanyard rule came from, my guess was to keep it short to help prevent entanglement.

I'm sure this wouldn't be too difficult to make, but then someone would have to demonstrate it ?
Bill does this sound plausible ?

Cheers,
Wal

[wolleneugebauer]

Originally Posted by efattah

I have been pulled up from 35m (simulated blackout) with the lanyard around my waist. There were no problems during the emergency procedure, although of course the ascent speed wasn't as fast as being pulled up by the wrist.

I did it too. It is slow, but it is working.
I never heard from black outs deeper than 20m. The risk is so small. For this unusual case our safty-system is good. I dont like the idea to castrate the sport for the safty-reasons (or unfounded fears) only.

I dont wear a hard hat on the street alltimes.
Sorry, my 2 cents only!

[cebaztian]

Yes increase in lanyard length has been on my mind for a long time. Specially for FIM. The right kind of lanyard and bottomplate arrangement does not tangle. Longer Lanyards would open up for new solutions in CNF attachment.

It would be interesting to realy understand HOW much of a problem the current system is. Will, Fattah, Wolle and others - seems to be happy with it (me too, even though I would think twice about the waist attachment in dives deeper than 50-60).

I think we must aknowledge that each discipline is different and need different solutions, maybe even diferent solutions for different depths (but that adds unfairness inbwtween athletes).

1) Best point of attachment, not to tangle with arms or legs = the waist or crouch.
2) Best point of attachment to pull up an athlete = top of the back.
(Alternative even attachement at the back of the waist would be much better than front - it would "fould" the athlete).
Best system would be a system that unattaches (releases) at the waist as described by others here.

Hopefully a decision can be made in dialogue with the athletes concerned and not based only on Bills personal preparations for WC.

have nice day! /S

[Billextreme]

There is an old idea to extend the max length on the lanyard to 150cm.
(at least in CNF and FIM)

Will this be much better?


Question: is there anyone else more than me that have tried making the dive with your back against the line?

...

Before you can say yes to a system with an special attachment that open in an emergency we have to see it "live" to know exactly how it works (and if).

Herbert had a system like this in a record attempt in FIM - and it was ok back then.

regards
B

ps. Sebastian, if your intrested in my personal preparations for WC, I will let you know when I start - and if I do well or bad.

[wolleneugebauer]

Everybody knows, that you have to swimm at the rope so near as possible:
- If the athlete swimms far away from the rope, it is a clear sign for loosing of the consciousness. Every safty-diver knows this.
- If you have currents, you have to control your distance alltimes. If you swimm to far away from the rope, your carabiner will be a heavy brake. It is more dangerous. The visual control is an essential!

[cebaztian]

I will learn and do whatever the rules tells me to do.

But I will swim deeper with "visual control". And my dive will be more controlled.

I try to visualize what will happen at the turn, tag grab e t c with my back against the rope. Quite hard just to think about it ;-)
Then I try to visualize how to surface back against the line, and turning into the lanyard looking for the line. Hmmmm.....

Takes a lot of training, probably.
Newbies will probably be stressed out and NEED the antiballast when they turn (to take the tag) and then find their lanyard over their shoulders in the way of their arms.

YES 150 cm lanyard is better. Opens up options for new attachment points/systems. (And helps FIM).

Sebastian

[glennv]

I think swimming with your back to the line is a ridiculous and dangerous idea.
Especially in dark cold water with zero visibility where we dive here in the Netherlands (and lots of other freedivers that do not have the luxury of clear water) a clear visual guide is very important for your safety. Also markings on the line warn you about approaching bottom(plate) and the line is very important to judge your ascend/descend speed.
So the lanyard and line have to be on the front for this reason and all the other reasons named by Wolle abd Cebastian.

Also I do not get the specific remark about if we ever have looked at a CNF dive with lanyard to the waist that it looked horrible. Looks beautiful and very controlled to me so I have no idea what you intend to say there. Must have been a very strange dive you where looking at.....