Any Suunto D4 reviews to report?

[hyeparis]

No, I have not seen D4 yet, but I have read it is made of plastic.
And, yes, I do know that the price does include not only the cost of components, but other costs. It is kind of obvious, isn't it?
But I still think that any company that wants to have a loyal clientile should not double the price of a product even it adds extra features.
(How many of potential clients would find these features redundant and not worth paying 50 percent more for is a question that I have an answer for. )
I cannot remember paying twice as much for the next Mac laptop or a Toyota car or any product for that matter.

[BennyB]

Originally Posted by hyeparis

the price does include not only the cost of components, but other costs. It is kind of obvious, isn't it?

Not to everyone, and particularly not the amount of money that can be dumped into things like Marketing and R&D. Mining companies are a great example, they will sink tens of millions into investigating areas to mine, before deciding it's not worth their while and moving on.

But at this stage of the game there isn't a massive market for freediving watches, and it's probably a small part of Suunto's business anyway so without much competition they can charge what they want.

And from memory when I looked at buying one in Australia a few years ago, the retail price wasn't that far away from what the US price is at the moment. Prices will typically go down in time, hopefully sooner than later!

[rbsub]

Originally Posted by Stephan Whelan

To Everyone Else: Any comments on pricing or functionality?

If I compare the D4 (450 Euro) and the Aeris Manta (300 Euro) - then that's a difference in price.

OK, the log at the D4 ist better then the one of the Manta. But what else?

Another question is the price of the cable and the software to connect the D4 with your PC. For the Manta that's about 80 Euro!!I hope that the price for the Suunto cable (or compatible) will be cheaper.

[hyeparis]

2 BennyB
I am sorry, but I don't really understand what do you mean by "not to everyone"
What I said was that it is kind of a truism, that -the price includes not just the cost of components, but also other costs. The cost of doing a feasibility study o is also among these costs.
"so without much competition they can charge what they want." - if that is the case than Finland's and other countries' anti-monopoly services should investigate Suunto for that.

[BennyB]

Originally Posted by hyeparis

2 BennyB
I am sorry, but I don't really understand what do you mean by "not to everyone"

I meant that not everyone would understand that the cost of a watch is not just what they can see (the cost of plastic, electronic componentry etc) but includes all the other stuff we mentioned, which would make them think that the watch would be hugely overpriced.

Originally Posted by hyeparis

"so without much competition they can charge what they want." - if that is the case than Finland's and other countries' anti-monopoly services should investigate Suunto for that.

They can charge whatever they want, it's their business and they're entitled to do whatever they need to (legally) to stay in business. It all comes down to market supply and demand, if they increase the price enough the market will decide there is an alternative (ie. not having a dive watch) so who has lost out then, the consumer or Suunto?

If someone thinks it's price fixing then they can contact the relevant anti-competition body but at the end of it all we're talking about a dive watch, not an internet provider or mobile phone company or supermarket so i'd be amazed if they took it up. Those sorts of organisations are geared at price fixing that affects the majority people, not just a few irate divers.

I understand your point but there is always an alternative - you don't have to buy it. Suunto want to make money so if no-one buys it they'll drop the price.

Cheers,
Ben

[hyeparis]

What I meant by questioning the following "so without much competition they can charge what they want" is that if there is no competition, than it means that a market regulator needs to step in to control the pricing . Monopolies, duopolies, etc need to be regulated. Or, another way of addressing that problem is to stimulate competition. Or so does a basic course on markets and markets failure say.

[Erik]

Originally Posted by hyeparis

Monopolies need to be regulated - the most common way is thru controlling their costs..

I think Moscow has some history with that haha!
I agree that the cost is somewhat prohibitive, no matter Suunto's justification. I haven't used an instrument for the last 2 years since my last Suunto died on me, but I'm looking for a new one. I'll look hard for one that is half the cost of the D4 if there is such a thing!
Cheers,
Erik

[azapa]

i have mentioned this before but my lost cost solution was to buy a used Mosquito on ebay. There are lots around (retiring divers) and cost about US$250 with cable. Hard to beat. sampling 2 seconds only drawback (for me). D4 looks great, I'll wait 3 years for it to come to used market though. Is it really plastic? looks metal bodied to me. (ie. good lookin)

[Pastor]

Wasn't Eric F's F1 only $100 more?

[Mullins]

Originally Posted by alphazo

- Recording interval: new free dive mode (default 1 second, adjustable 1, 2, 5s)

What happened to the .33s recording interval of the D4? This would be its biggest selling point as far as I'm concerned.

[Bill]

At first glance it appears that Suunto learned marketing from the best. Develop a new product and test the market. If it sells, change as little as possible, re-number it and double the price. If however, they've fixed the reliability issue and it lasts five years, it will be cheaper in the long run. Using a warm, fresh water, shallow testing ground doesn't look too good though.
If the costs are similar to other electronic products, making the first one costs millions but the last one costs a few dollars. I remember one of the best handi-talkies ever made sold for $250 (5-600 in todays money) and after they stopped production someone kept the assembly line running for another thousand or so. They appeared on the 'grey' market for $50. It's probably too late to get one last run of the D3 just like it's probably too late to buy Apple stock.
Speaking of Apple, Hyeparis it is so easy to hook a Mac up to the D3 that I figured it out with some help from the Deeper Blue connection. Suunto cable, $30 program and $30 twixty.

[Stephan Whelan]

Originally Posted by Mullins

What happened to the .33s recording interval of the D4? This would be its biggest selling point as far as I'm concerned.

The D4 samples 3 times a second but only stores once a second to the log. It chooses the deepest sample to when it stores to the log.

[jimy286]

I was also lucky enough to try the D4 in the set tank at the weekend and loved it...

Could not say a word against it...took it to 30 and the surface int realy helped.

Hi Stephan

[Stephan Whelan]

Originally Posted by Bill

Using a warm, fresh water, shallow testing ground doesn't look too good though.

Bill - I just want to get the record straight here. The unit has gone through extensive testing and these are pre-production units that have been sent out to various magazines (including DB) to test for upcoming reviews. They are not using DB as a primary testing platform for the product.

However - they have found it insightful as to how Freedivers put the unit through it's paces. We only had the units for 2 days of testing and it happened to coincide with a SETT weekend course we were running. Our partner in the review (Sport Diver) tested a unit in Canada over Xmas and is now in the Caribbean with it.

As for pricing - what I can say is that the freediving market is tiny compared to the scuba market. In our view (i.e. that of the freediving world) people are worried about features and cost for those features. In the business world they are interested in shifting as many units as possible and making a computer that has a wide appeal. I believe they have done that with the D4 as it caters for both Scuba and Freediving and as our (DB) research has shown, the majority of people who freedive also do some form of Scuba so this should appeal to them.

The opportunity here is to help drive product R&D forward. You can bet your bottom dollar that Suunto are watching with interest the reaction to the D4 and the feedback of this community will be critical in helping to shape the future of computers for freediving.

[ADR]

given that the code is already written it is a shame that Suunto did not include the freediving functionality in the D6 or D9 as I think they look fantastic and would buy one tomorrow if I could have .33sec sampling on freedive mode on a D9/D6.


If Suunto is listening what about this for an idea:

Release the hardware (basic watch) at a given base price and then allow the users to purchase the unlock keys online for the particular functions they want enabled on the unit. It would have to reduce costs and increase product flexibility in the market for Suunto and provide huge choices for the consumer.

I would in this way buy the D9 and buy the freediving unlock code now and then probably the air diving unlock code on my next dive holiday and then later maybe purchase the multi gas options. Ongoing revenue stream from me on a base piece of kit.......just an idea