Any Suunto D4 reviews to report?

[sunfish]

The problems with D3-
1) I have to buy unwanted/unnecessary scuba functions.
2) Unreliable, prone to breakdowns.
3) Cheap plastic face scratches easily and face protector gets sand under and scratches even worse.
4)Has the appearance of a poundshop watch.
5)Battery changing is expensive if the shop does it and fiddly/risky if you do it yourself.
Having said all that it has been very useful, Suuntos aftersales service has been second to none and they have stood by their guarantees.
It would be interesting to see how many of the above issues have been corrected in the D4 but I won't be buying one as it costs well over my basic weeks wage and there are cheaper alternatives.

[sunfish]

Could they have made a separate version with the scuba chips omitted?

[hyeparis]

Originally Posted by Bill

Speaking of Apple, Hyeparis it is so easy to hook a Mac up to the D3 that I figured it out with some help from the Deeper Blue connection. Suunto cable, $30 program and $30 twixty.

I got an old cable with mine - so I would have to doll out a 100 usd for the USB cable or order an adaptor that costs about 40 or so from U.S. plus shipping plus the program - so it is NOT that cheap and is a hassle.
I just cannot see why Suunto would not factor in Mac users, whose numbers are growing - so much for their ability to project

[sheepeck]

Originally Posted by sunfish

The problems with D3-
1) I have to buy unwanted/unnecessary scuba functions.

There are some scuba functions on D3? I thought this watch is pure freediving instrument without any scuba functions.

Anyway, IMHO, I think that all watches with both scuba and freediving modes are thought to be used more by scuba divers with interest in freediving than opposite.

[Kars]

I'm a happy D3 user, and not planning to go below a 100m soon. Have replaced the battery twice myself, and though one nob is now starting to become less responsive it still works sufficiently after 4 years of usage.
A more sturdy freedive watch would be nice, though at the moment my monthly salary is way lower than the target price. So Suunto can ignore me, one of those barely scraping by freedivers who are BAD consumers because they rather be out there living than work and produce 24/7.

Perhabs I become more attracted to Jaque's philosophy, "don't bring your fancy watches and other trinkets, because you won't need them down there" when Umberto came over to learn.

Sure there are instances where it's usefull, like the depth alarm.

Perhabs Suunto expects a major increase in the area of money inflation?
Or are they aiming twards a smaller elitest group of divers?
Maybe a good idea to wait for the D3's to be faced out and being sold for big discounts?

[azapa]

I have noticed in PFI's latest newsletter that they are recommending to "buy 'em while they last" on the D3's. Makes me think that they may even go UP in price as they are phased out.

I too think they are reliable, many probs are solved with a bat change. Hopefully other manufacturers will position watches into the niche that Suunto is leaving, sadly, behind. Mares, Cressi etc.

Regarding alarms, I have heard my down time alarm once in a years diving despite exceeding it most weekends. They are useless for me.

[ADR]

Anyone whinging about the cost with a freedive only perspective is missing the point i think. The D4 is a scuba computer with a freedive function....as was the Mosquito. The D3 equivalent is gone from the Suunto range and that I'm sure is simple market economics.

[hyeparis]

2 Andy.
I e-mailed Suunto in November about D4, asking them "if D4 is replacing any particular model" and their response to me was "The D4 (i)s replacing the Mosquito and D3 in the new year."
Also, if they had not cared about preventing a drop in the number of freedivers/spearos who don't use scuba in their clientile, they would not have bothered to perfect the discretion of depth measurment in the new model.
So maybe we have a case here when a producer which has no strong competition in that sector decides to replace a cheaper model with a more expensive one, adding extra features. If that is the case, than it is the case when markets fail and a market regulator might have to step in. I am sure you can read it up in any economic course on "market and market failure."
PS And what does the word "whinging" mean in this context, may I ask? I am not a native speaker of the English, so I'd like to know.

[sheepeck]

According my understanding - you personally (or we) should act as market regulators. It means / You like it? Buy it. You don't? Leave it.
Still, I understand your dissapointment. But Suunto can do what they want and I think it's OK.

[Stephan Whelan]

Originally Posted by hyeparis

I e-mailed Suunto in November about D4, asking them "if D4 is replacing any particular model" and their response to me was "The D4 (i)s replacing the Mosquito and D3 in the new year."
Also, if they had not cared about preventing a drop in the number of freedivers/spearos who don't use scuba in their clientile, they would not have bothered to perfect the discretion of depth measurment in the new model.

The key thing there is they are saying two devices are being replaced - the Mosquito and D3. It looks more like the D4 is a direct replacement for the Mosquito (which had Scuba and Free functions). I don't know, but suspect, that the D3 is being phased out as the sales for a pure Freediving computer weren't strong enough to warrant a computer product in it's own right.

You need to look at this in perspective - how big is the freediving market compared to the scuba market and how many computers get sold in each.

I completely understand your frustrations especially as the pricing of the computer is more in line with a scuba computer than a freediving one which does price it out of the range of some freedivers.

Originally Posted by hyeparis

So maybe we have a case here when a producer which has no strong competition in that sector decides to replace a cheaper model with a more expensive one, adding extra features. If that is the case, than it is the case when markets fail and a market regulator might have to step in. I am sure you can read it up in any economic course on "market and market failure."

I truly don't believe a market regulator is needed in this context.

The Freediving market is still embryonic and, whilst it is growing rapidly and is recognised as a potential way of getting new people into diving in general, we need to recognise that any business (computer manufacturer or not) will try to maximise revenue and get rid of unprofitable lines of product, sometimes by merging their features into a new or existing line of products.

We haven't "lost" any features by replacing the Mosquito and D3 - we have gained a more advanced computer that also caters for the Scuba market.

[hyeparis]

[quote=Stephan Whelan;686350] It looks more like the D4 is a direct replacement for the Mosquito (which had Scuba and Free functions). /QUOTE]
2 Stephan Whelan: The response from Suunto didn't say that. It said it was replacing both. From my perspective, a product that many freedivers and scubaless spearos could use and could afford, is being phased out with the replacement being twice as expensive.
2 All Who Argue Along the lines "Take it or Leave It". This is not how consumers should be acting. If there is a lack of competition, be it due to a monopoly/duopoly/cartel,or any other reason, then the government(s) needs (need) to step in. If you extrapolate your attitude to other providers of goods and services, then your local grid company should be able to triple prices tomorrow, sending you a note that would say "if you don't like, than don't buy it."
At that I am gonna stop as I can only repeat myself further on.

[trux]

Ha, I bet you still keep you Communist Party ID card! So, the government should keep an eye on the price of freediving watches (and probably all other products one can imagine) and decide how much they can cost! It looks like you prefer paying tens of thousands of corrupted bureaucrats controlling the industry and economy, than paying the manufacturers. I know that system very well - have been living under the communist bastards for 30 years. The only result of government regulated prices is that nobody is motivated to manufacture anything, everyone is a state employee, and no one bothers to really work - you surely know it very well from your own country, too.

Suunto is not a monopoly or a cartel. There are at least half a dozen other manufacturers offering diving computers with freediving functions. And even if that's not enough and you believe their price is unfair, and that the market needs a cheaper products, simply borrow some money and create your own company producing them.

Eric Fattah did it, and indeed built a superior product. Unfortunately he found out that the market is too small and the manufacturing and other running costs too high, so his diving computer is actually multiple times more expensive than that of Suunto.

[ADR]

Originally Posted by hyeparis

2 Andy.
.....I am sure you can read it up in any economic course on "market and market failure."
PS And what does the word "whinging" mean in this context, may I ask? I am not a native speaker of the English, so I'd like to know.

Thanks but I'm quite comfortable with my understanding of market dynamics and economics.

From Dictionary.com
whinged, whing·ing, whing·es Chiefly British
To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

[sunfish]

There are plenty of threads on this forum researching cheaper alternatives.I'm sure most spearfishers and freedivers will take a good look at these once the D3 is gone for good. Anyone know the sample rate of the freedive function on the Maris Nemo? It's expensive but does look stylish.
As a whingeing pom I would like to point out that the verb "to whinge" has an e on the end of it and "whingeing" is spelt with an e after the g. Thought you ought to know this Andy.

[Mullins]

I think its refresh rate was 1s but it only wrote to its log every 4s. Aren't they bringing out a special freedive-only model though? I'd expect that to have pretty decent specs given the Nemo is already quite good.