Fish are back

[Fondueset]

We should form a midwestern spearfishing Lobby. Figure out some way to show how much revenue it would generate. I know if they legalized salmon we could hold tournaments where I live - the visibility is awesome - generate a whole new tourist industry ,, we'd make millions I tells ya...millions!!

[Jon]

We'll have to do it quick- before the lake dies.
I was talking to my brother-in-law, who happens to be a comercial fisherman out on Lkae Michigan, and he says they're talking aobut the lake being dead in the next 10 years- northern parts of the fishery have already collapsed and scientists are working on a date for the rest of it to come crashing down. Invasive species, zebra mussles are just the begining, as well as pollution has taken it's toll on her. Pretty soon all we'll have left is very clear, sterile, water.

As far as what fish i see in Lake Michigan, it really depend supon where you are. When diving in side the marinas themselves, usually looking for something a boater lost or doing a mooring job, I have seen musky, bass, northern and plenty of walleye.

I see lots of carp along the break walls- one day I paddled my dive kayak up and down the breakwall by south shore yacht club and counted 220 carp from the surface.

Out in the lake, on the wrecks, it's a different story. There's one shallow wreck tha tused to have these really big school of the largest lake perch I've ever seen- that died off about ten years ago. I see small sculpins on most of the wrecks as well as burbot everywhere- especially on the deeper wrecks. I have seen school of aelwieves form huge baitballs, just like in the ocean, out in water that's at least 60'. I have also seen salmon streaming through them and eating just like a shark in the middle of the bait ball. Big brown's come in to die after spawning so I see those at around 25'. I have alos come acorss them on scooter runs during some of our search and recovery jobs. I think they like the sound of the motor?

Swimming near shore, less than 10' I'll run across rock bass, bluegill, perch, and plent of crayfish.

One time I was running my dog down by the beach, I have a chocolate lab, and she go it an swam with this salmon for at least 20 minutes. It was the craziest thign I have ever seen. They would swim around in tandem bumping into eachother every once in a while. All of this happened in about 3' of water and other people gathered on the beach to watch as they walked on by. It was one of the strangest, neatest, things I've ever seen.

Our inland lakes have many more fish in them and these local lakes, in Madison, have some of the greatest concentration of fish that I have ever seen in an inland lake. I don't know why but there are just a lot of fish here- and not just by the hot water outlet in the middle of winter. It's just too bad the local lakes get so green that they actually turn black, below 10', in the middle of summer and stay that way for almost 5 months of the year.

Sorry for the long post.

jon

[Fondueset]

Interesting. This spring I plan to take my daughter out to freedive on a freighter that grounded off south manitou - be interesting to see what we find there.

Here the Sculpins have been almost completely replaced by round gobies - another invader. Too bad because sculpins are much cooler. The gobies are everywhere on the bottom. I've really just got back into this in the last couple of years - and the lake ecology has changed radically since I was first diving.

Provided pollution does not continue to run unchecked - I think we'll see some unexpected changes rather than the Sterile vision. I could be wrong - just a feeling. It would take a pretty complex combination of events to render the lake sterile for any length of time. In any case I sure hope not.

It's clear human beings have been awfully slow to wake up to their impact on things - and even to change practices in synch with natural changes.. Certainly no improvement there in the last few years - and alot of steps backward.

I've see the balls of alewives (another invader!) - it's a blast to get into the center of one. The Salmon feeding would be wild to watch! Maybe I should get back into scuba - it's just hard when I could be freediving instead!

[Jon]

There were a few musky there, but they were a bit more skittish than last year- of course I only saw 3 compared to 30+ at a time last year!

In Lake Michigan they now have a new mussel that is outcompeting the zebra mussel. It's called the quaga (sp?) mussle and it goes down quite bit deeper than the zebra mussels. I saw some pictures form a dive charter a good freind of mine ran out to the Carl D. Bradley last year. The whole wreck is now covered with these things and she sits in 370' of water! These quaga mussels also reproduce year round, vs. summer time only with the zebra's, so it's only a matter of time before they get replaced. The dramatic filtration rate of these new mussels was the reason given by the local scientists for why the lake will go dead in 10 years. They just out-compete all other species at this point.

We had NHK, Japanese form of PBS, rent out the boat a couple of winters ago to do a special on the zebra mussle invasion. They spent a few days around Milwaukee filming and then flew to Detroit to film some of your ducks that were eating the zebra mussels. Sound great at first until it was reported that the ducks were dying as a result!

One of the neater places I've dove, both free and scuba, is Tobemorey in Canada. Something about the bottom there causes the zebra mussels to attach themselves to the substrate but leave the wrecks alone. Very strange as all of our wrecks are now covered in a very thick coating of mussels and some, like the Carferry Milwaukee, are now starting to fall apart from all the extra weight.

You have quite a different bottom topography over on your side than the eastern shore. I had to do a salvage job over in grand haven a few years back and spent close 4 hours underwater staring at sand before I found what we were looking for. Very flat sandy bottom over there. On this side we have rock reefs, sand, silt, and some really wild clay mounds that often screw with the sidescan sonar and look like boat hulls- I've dove on more than one in search of a new wreck. We also have boulders this side of the lake that are sometimes as big as a house- was more of a problem with the old sidescan unit than the newer one that gives us a sharper image.

Jon

[land shark]

of course the Ontario Federation of Anglers just put carp on the gamefish list

those HOSERS

[Fondueset]

Awesome fish! Alot of my pictures are in Grand Traverse bay - which is largely sand - at least where I did most of my diving last year. The shots in Lake Michigan are mostly rock bottom - some Marl and large boulders but mostly rounded fieldstone like rocks about the size of a softball starting about 100 yards out - you can't see the muscles for all the green hairy algae but they become more evident with depth. It varies though - sometimes there are riverlike swaths of marl, sand or zebra muscle shells. It actually sounds pretty similar to what you describe - depending on where you dive.

I've heard the Zebras concentrate heavy metals and other toxins - hence not too good for ducks. I just read the quaga muscles carry botulism... A dnr guy I spoke with says drums have been eating zebra muscles for quite awhile - evidently they've got grinders in their throats.

I'll look into the quaga muscles - haven't seen them yet. Strange business these heavy ecological changes.

That lake seems really green!

[land shark]

Hey guys, how about a salmon tag! ya pay as ya go. Seeing how its suppose to be a sure thing according to the anglers.

[fleedermouse]

Well it was only a matter of time before the next big invasive was discovered. Salmon-alewif-shad-Zebras-ruffe-gobies-quaga.

These lakes have been declared dead in the past and they may well again but nothing's forever. This clearly sucks but I'm not ready to accept the fact there will be no fish. See, I'm just getting into freediving and spearfishing. I've been doing abalone/dungeness and rockfish for a couple of seasons here in Oregon/N. Cal and now I am heading back to Michigan. Was really hoping that I'd hear we could spearfish for any species but I think it's only carp.

Fondue-

Do you know all the rules up there. I'm probably moving to Grand Haven and I was thinking the same thing about shaking up the regs there. It wouldn't hurt to make some friends in the DNR and try to get something changed. Salmon are hatchery fish and it would be so freakin fun to hunt them. I doubt very many people would actually do it and the impact would be minimal. We have to be extremely diplomatic of course to make it work.

Maybe I should bring a few razor clams with me when I move back . That would be an invasive I could live with.

Sorry if I hijacked this.

[Fondueset]

Carp, sucker, gar and bowfin. Bowfin are good for making thermometers. Gar can be hunted with a good pair of gloves, and carp are large, long-lived bottom feeders - good candidate for toxins not to mention not all that tasty. That leaves suckers and the rumour is they are not bad eating - fish advisory indicates they are among the cleanest depending on area - they don't even make the list up here.

It's not up to the DNR - it needs to get in front of the legislature - pm me your email and I'll pass my correspondence with them along to you. I'm definitely down with coordinating a movement to change the regs. There are so many salmon they are practically environmental pollution! My so far (such as it is) push has only been for lake michigan and adjoining waters. Alot of it is educating people - anglers in particular - about spearfishing.

[Jon]

As far as the fishing rules go, each state sets up it's own limits and species list. When it comes to the Great Lakes, like Lake Michigan, they take the most restrictive rules from ALL of the surrounding states (Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin) and apply them to the WHOLE lake. It will take more than just one DNR offic to approve of such a venture.

As I mentioned before, I've had a VERY long conversation with a local game warden, who is also a freediving spearo, and he HAS propostioned the powers that be with the idea of a slamon tag, single fish limit, while freediving only, and got no where with it. He basically asked them to come up with whatever silly kind of rules they wanted, just give us the chance to try it, but was ignored on the whole issue. In the end he does all of his spearfishing on trips down to Blieze and just does the angler thing up here.

Jon

[fleedermouse]

OK so how do the gar pike taste? Guess for the time being I'll have to enjoy the scenery and target practice with the carp. Sent you an e-mail.

[fleedermouse]

Wow, that is a disheartening story Jon. I remember the politics of the area and we are infinitely more open to public discourse here in Oregon. The multi-state and international mgt. of the big lakes makes things very difficult as well. Maybe it's futile but I can't help but look into it when I move.

[Fondueset]

My plan is to make a little noise about this and see if it starts to go anywhere. My main angle has been the uniqueness of the environment and the possibility of an - at-least-locally significant tourist business. This is a resort area so the locals are geared toward that - getting them on board could start sort of a snowball anyway. I'm not optimistic but it's worth a try.

Never tried Gar - they are way too cool looking and weirdly docile to shoot anyway.

[Jon]

Fonduset,

If you can get that opened to spearing Ted and I will come over and do it with you. I've dove over there on there wrecks more than once and it has been opened up quite a bit as a choice wreck diving spot- especially Whitefish Point. No reason why people wouldn't go there to be able to spearfish. I still won't hold my breath on that happening.

I wouldn't want to shoot, or eat a garfish. Drum are considered a rough fish over here and aren't too bad to eat if you don't want to eat a carp. I am not sure how Burbot rate on the rough fish scale, but they are basically a freshwater cod and very tasty to eat- but not too good after they have been frozen for some reason.

Politics are pretty screwy around here. Wisconsin used to be know as one of the cleanest political states in the nation, but ever since Tommy Thompson was governor thing have gone down hill pretty fast. Right now it seems as if all of our elected officals, form both parties, are facing at least some jail time. Not trying to make this a political debate, there are other websites for that, just not holding out any of hope to get anything changed for our benefit.

Actually, I've seen just the opposite. We used to be able to spear in Devil's Lake, once of the nicest lakes in the whole state, but that was outlawed about 3 years ago. Too bad because the fish tasted really good out of the lake since it was so much cleaner than our local ones.

Jon

[Fondueset]

Mark Labocetta has said he might show up too.

'Wecome to the Omer Midwest Open' (well, I can dream!)

Fleeder - I've forwarded you the i/o from the dnr.

I just wrote a local guy who's chairman of the game commission or something - we'll see what he has to say.