Freediving on YouTube

[laminar]

Took some video today. It wasn't optimal because it was after a lesson and I had no time to warm up: I find doing the kick efficiently the most difficult without a warm-up, definitely something I'm working on a lot, now.

Watching it now it appears to be very close to my butterfly stroke in the anchor phase.

I'll do a search to see if I have any old video to compare.

I'll also post some frames of my arm stroke.

Will post a little later. Have to go teach again tonight.

Pete

[laminar]

Okay, here's the video. Couldn't find any old footage.

I do remember in 2003 my strokes per length was at 4-5 with a 3mm suit and weight.

When I get my new 3mm suit in the mail, I'll do a retest with weight, as well.

Things I changed or do differently:

-Lots of work on my kick (although the video isn't a good example of my best kicking
-narrowed the pull and made it more of an anchor
-made my toe-flick/undulation sharper than before
-faster swim overall
-paying more attention to balance
-FRC vs. full inhale makes balance much easier
-streamline in between strokes is not full classic streamline, it is slightly wider
-streamline off the wall is classic, though

Things that are a bit flaky in the video:
-middle clip wasn't great but I included it to show you pull/anchor head on
-feet tend to move around a little

YouTube - Freediving without fins - practice

[Kars]

Hi Pete,

Nice video, thanks for sharing.
I see you make your strokes really "aggressive". Together with a body being hold stiff it surely helps to minimise the number of strokes. But the question is, is this a diving style that brings you the furthest?
An aggressive stroke also makes balancing much more difficult, and the amount of energy needed for an aggressive stroke is higher.
Personally I would train doing those aggressive strokes for the sake of building up muscles, endurance, balance etc. But for competition I would take it down a notch or two, and use a bit more relaxation.

Wearing a 3mm with weights and full breath should enable you to do 2,5 strokes with ease, 2 - 1,5 with a little more practice.

taking down the stroke a notch I would just have my arms in the beginning of the stroke go a little slower speeding up to full at the end of the arm stroke. In my view it's more efficient when you peddle speed isn't full at the start, perhaps similar to spinning wheels in drag racing, much smoke, much energy but not very efficient

Kars

Keep 'm coming

[laminar]

Originally Posted by Kars

Hi Pete,

Taking down the stroke a notch I would just have my arms in the beginning of the stroke go a little slower speeding up to full at the end of the arm stroke. g

Hi Kars,

I agree that a more relaxed style will in general work better for an actual long dynamic. I am primarily training for CNF so that harder style is helping me train for that.

While my style may look aggressive, it actually isn't. If I did a slower stroke, I wouldn't have as good a transfer of momentum forward. That's I why I characterize the arm motion as an "anchor" rather than a pull or scull. It's a bit of hair-splitting in terms of terminology, but I am very much focused on shifting weight from behind my hands to in front. Think of my hands staying in one place as I move past them. You'll note the small dolphin action as I follow through. This is different than a straight pull back.

Subtle, but different if you compare to other techniques I've seen on Youtube.

Can you post some video Kars? You seem to have a lot of advice on technique. Be nice to see your take on it with and without a wetsuit.

I would add that I like this style because it feels very good. No doubt it will require a little tweaking with a wetsuit for dynamic and cnf.

But the main thing that has been cool is the great increase in speed and efficiency with no extra ballast.

[trux]

Thanks, Pete, it is excellent! Very well done video. Yesterday I watched also plenty of breaststroke videos on the GoSwim website. Besides showing the style, they also demonstrate many drills that may be quite useful for learning the right movements. Some drills are not applicable or useful for freediving though.

I watched your video in slow motion, and the style looks amazing. Nice dolphin kick there, though I wonder if it does not consume too much oxygen. One thing I noticed when watching it in slow motion and comparing with some of the GoSwim videos -I think you could considerably improve the pressure drag if you try keeping your hands and elbows very close to the chest when moving forward.

[laminar]

Originally Posted by trux

I watched your video in slow motion, and the style looks amazing. Nice dolphin kick there, though I wonder if it does not consume too much oxygen. One thing I noticed when watching it in slow motion and comparing with some of the GoSwim videos -I think you could considerably improve the pressure drag if you try keeping your hands and elbows very close to the chest when moving forward.

Speed is much more important for me with FRC. That's why I want to get as much propulsion from the dolphin toe flick kick (the one shown in the video is too wide - I find I haven't imprinted the right technique for the kick yet so that it is automatic). Oxygen consumption is greatly reduced with a high dive response and I'm relying on the muscles in greater isolation. So my apnea time is limited. If my pace is slower by a few seconds per 25m that will make a significant difference in my dive time. That's my working theory that I will test, anyway. For monofin dynamics, I'm completing 50m at or just under 30 seconds with no weight. Goal is to complete 200m in 2 minutes.

No fins is slower and so there is a greater penalty in terms of time. 50-55 seconds per 50m without fins. If I had a breath hold like Eric (who posted his national record video in this thread) and was using an inhale style, then I could perhaps afford to go more slower and use a different style.

BTW, I'm not advocating that this is the best style, just seems to work for me so far and I want to see how it is for longer swims.

Pete

[fpernett]

This is a PB 3 months ago, it was at an altitude of 2600 meters. I know I have to work a lot on my arms stretch but wanted some input from all of you

YouTube - 86 m DNF

[Kars]

Hi Frank!

Nice video, looks like a very nice pool!
My guess it's about 1,60 deep, that brings me to my first observation, your altitude and arm movement. You appear to swim to close to the bottom with arms are going wide. Anders Larson the ex swimmer swims a little higher and uses a different stroke, grabbing water with the hands, for arms and than pulling under chest in a strait line. The video can be found under the Nordic Deep (2008) tread on Deeperblue, it's the one of the ND DNF final with Anders, Bjorten and Christian swimming respectively 154m, 152m, 125m all PB's!

Furthermore I see you have your weight setup nicely in balance, and you manage to keep you body very strait. Does this not cost too much o2? The speeds seem to match your setup. Stig comended to me about speed that I should work on it because I swam much to slow taking 1'05" for a 50m lap. He said I should be able to do it in 45s, and than do it 'relaxed' in something like 50 seconds. Though a suit may be limiting your vasoconstriction and survival shock reaction hitting the 'cold' water, it can help you in reducing drag and adding more weight and have more mass and longer glide. For instance I see you making your first stroke after about 6 meters from the wall. With 2kg more and suit you would postpone it easily to 10-12m, reducing your number of strokes, gaining more from every push of the wall.
Personally for me a suit is vital, as I'm skinny and when not swimming fast loose so much warmth that hampers my ability to store O2 in blood and relax without shivering uncontrollably.

After watching your video a few times more I notice your arm recovery stroke can be better, make more use of the drag the head creates. Also you feet are sometimes going back to default 80 degree angle, stretch those out. Having your legs and feet together also reduces drag. As you report your back and shoulder flexibility can be better.

Finally it's a nice swim! at an altitude of 2600m it's a great feat I think.

Pete,
I don't have a camera nor a Youtube account, but after the Dutch National Freedive Championship the 23rd of November I shall work a bit on my rusty No Fins technique and have someone record it.

I hope my comments help you, and am looking forward to your progression.

Kars

ps: be careful how you surface, first mouth than 'grab/stand', the AIDA rules have not changed yet

[sofabike]

Last Saturaday I did not meet my buddys in Vortex Spring.
Trerefor I put camera on a stick and start swiming around.
Water was not clear, and it was a lot of SCUBAs around

YouTube - Monkey got stick , monofin

[laminar]

Great idea! Camera on a stick.

Can you post a photo of your set-up?

[Jon]

Sofabike,

I love the camera stick idea!

I notice that your front-mount snorkel looks to be a standard snorkel with the mouthpiece turned sideways. Do you have any close up pictures of how you attached it to your mask?

Thanks,

Jon

[laminar]

Originally Posted by Kars

Hi Frank!

Pete,
I don't have a camera nor a Youtube account, but after the Dutch National Freedive Championship the 23rd of November I shall work a bit on my rusty No Fins technique and have someone record it.

I hope my comments help you, and am looking forward to your progression.

Kars

ps: be careful how you surface, first mouth than 'grab/stand', the AIDA rules have not changed yet

Oh, yeah, rules! Thanks for the reminder - I'll start paying attention to that soon. Usually, I just surface with an arm stroke.

Good luck at the comp, Kars!

I'm going to the Blue Hole in Bahamas next weekend, so I'll be working on FRC no fins and will likely have video and some stories to post after that.



Frank! How does holding your breath at altitude feel? Can you describe it?

[sofabike]

Originally Posted by Jon

Sofabike,

I love the camera stick idea!

I notice that your front-mount snorkel looks to be a standard snorkel with the mouthpiece turned sideways. Do you have any close up pictures of how you attached it to your mask?

Thanks,

Jon

Jon
you are right, I did changed mouthpiece positions.
On a mask pipe sits on velcro-tipe.
Before this mask-pipe inovation I did used speed/front snorkle with gugles.
I love to swim with gugles. It gives more observing angle view.
The only bad gugles limite my depth to 10 meters.

I will make pictures of a front pipe on mask and camera on a stick in upcoming weekend

p.s. hope my Director/Assistand Mss Gidds will be there too

[fpernett]

Originally Posted by Kars

Does this not cost too much o2?

Hi Kars
Yes, I have to make an effort to keep on balance, when I use a suit, as you mention it, it's easier to keep the body balance and to glide more, but I get tired of bring so many things to the pool. My training is directed to CNF, but I'll like to master DNF. As you said too, I'm very stiff, so have to work a LOT more on stretching.
I reviewed the video, and will try to work on the arm movement. When I started to practice DNF, I didn´t use neckweight that's why I get used to swim next to the bottom (to control bouyancy), I have to keep midway to it. Thanks for your detailed advice, I'll work on it

Originally Posted by laminar

Frank! How does holding your breath at altitude feel? Can you describe it?

Hi Pete
I don´t know how to. I live at altitude, and all my training is right here. when low altitude people come to train here, they said is quite difficult, and their performances get reduced on a 50% grossly. William Winram was here and said that it was the most difficult 50 meters dive he had ever done in a pool. My brother when was training for static competition in monaco, was doing 8 minutes on average, when he arrived here he barely did 4 and half, but after a month he was doing 6 mins. In Monaco he was around 8 and a half in training. I don't feel like a "boost" when performing at sea level, I just know that I can do more than at altitude.

Nice that you are going to Dean´s, I'm envious!! See you next year there

[azapa]

Hope you enjoy this one. Spring time brings bloom and murk here. 12C waters.

Use the "watch in high quality" button on the bottom right of the viewing window.

Why do my feet float so much in salty water?

YouTube - Caverna en Apnea