More Fun In Cold Water!

[Jon]

Chris,

I've had schools of salmon follow me around when scuba diving with a scooter in Lake Michigan. I was running a search pattern and they we either attracted to the noise of the scooter or the electical impulse it was putting out.

We used to get huge schools of giant perch on some of the wrecks in years past, but they have mostly died off by now.

With the greatly improved vis one of the cooler things that I have seen are large schools of aelwives that look just like an ocean baitball. Sometimes you even get to see the salmon circling around them and dash in for a quick lunch.

Inside the breakwalls we see lots of walleye, rockbass, pike and even musky; but, I have never seen these out in deeper water on the wrecks we dive.

Jon

[Fondueset]

I think it's mostly winter they move out into the deeper water - though I've heard they do it again in summer because they like it cool. I once got into the middle of a huge school of alewives. They formed a ball around me and blotted out every thing. I've also seen a school of Gizzard shad - that was pretty cool because they are so big - yet there were probably 100 of them.

I've only been back at freediving for going on 3 years now after decades of only very occasional dives so I'm still getting the lay of the land. I didn't notice near as much when I was a kid - but we also had a fraction of the visibility.

[island_sands]

Fondue

I know what you mean about an eerie feeling - when i was younger i used dive down in the pool at home and start the imagination... i had crocs, sharks, submarines, and barbie dolls sometimes i used to scare myself right out of the pool!

That cold feeling on the face, it is awesome, i never thought i'd enjoy that but it makes you feel alive.

[JPPLAY]

Fonduest I am mainly a freshwater spearfisherman in Western Canada you may notice when you take a gun into the water that the fish will be more wary. Fish seem to be able to pick up when spearfisherman are on the hunt. I think some of the best spearfisherman can appear to the fish not to be hunting more then the rest of us.
Try looking for whitefish in more shallow water as in the winter they go very shallow around 5 to 8 ft here. In spring time and fall they are also shallow but go deep in the summer. I have shot them around large structure.
It intresting that you have weary Walleye as here they are rather curious and are easy to approach even with a speargun. I have heard though that it could be because of the clear water as they are normally not a clear water fish. Would make it fun to hunt them then.

[Old Man Dave]

A lot of experienced divers/spearo's will agree that fish seem to sense when you are armed. When on scuba armed with a handspear for flatfish I frequently get shoals of prime bass swim close up despite noisy bubbles etc. However no matter how stealthy you are when freediving with a gun the bass are always wary. It isn't just the scuba either 'cause grab a camera not a gun when freediving and you can get some close encounters.

Having noticed this over the years i've thought on it a bit. I reckon it's your body language. With gun you instinctively act aggressively, you can't help it, and this scares the fish. So if this is right maybe top spearo's can supress their natural movements and attitude to make themselves appear less threatening. Interesting idea!

Dave

[Fondueset]

I noticed that when I was a kid - I did a lot of spearfishing around here. Back then I worked on it a little and while it sounds weird I was able to tweak my intention. It's sort of a black art but pretty much gun or camera it doesn't make any diff.

In fact the fish seem more wary of the camera most of the time and I have to be really careful how I move it. Extending a gun toward them doesn't seem to cause as much of a reaction as just bringing up the lense, very slowly even. Of course there is not a great deal of spearing here but some of the fish are very twitchy nonetheless.
I've had fish spook repeatedly just from gently rotating the camera so the lense points at them. They must think it's a big scarey eye or something.

I haven't done scuba in years but from my conversations with local divers I don't think they see near as much fish-wise - though they probably have more encounters with fish that remain stationary and hide under things - like burbot.

[fleedermouse]

I live about 150 miles to the south of Fondue right on the windward side of Lake Michigan.

Fondue,

I haven't had much luck down here in Grand Haven yet. I saw a few drum back in August and I find scattered alewive schools at times but, alas, no bait balls. It seems that my best option for finding fish is along the piers. My problem with that is that there is almost always a horde of fishers lining any given pier. When they are not there, I'm distracted/concerned about the myriad of lines that may ensnare me in these areas. Any tips for me?

I might go out soon just off the beach to see if any salmonids are cruising betwixt the sandbars. I have heard that they tend to collect in these areas, especially when the water is colder.

Bret

[Jon]

Bret,

I can understand you lack of success off of Grand Haven.

I did a slavage job over there a few years back and that is one FLAt, SANDY place! I spent a few hours on the bottom running search patterns and was happy anytime I even bumped into a rock- it was a friggin' desert!

Of course it did make it easier to find what we were looking for since it stuck up off the sand, but I don't think I ever saw a single fish in the 5 hours I spent on the bottom that day.

If you come over the the west side of the lake, or go further north, the bottom changes quite a bit. On my side of the lake we have these huge clay mounds that take the shape of coral reefs in spots. They come up off the bottom 10-15' and there's plenty of room to hide things inbetween- which makes it harder to side scan for some old wreck that could easily be lying inbetween them!

We also have huge boulders on the bottom, some as big as a fishing tug, that were brought down when the lake formed. They are pretty impressive in size and allow for more areas for the fish to hide. Of course, this also makes it hard to side scan for new wrecks and i can't tell you how many house sized boulders i've dove on over the years when in search for a new wreck that we thought was in the area.

Your area seems to be much better for surfing than mine. Maybe you'd have better luck hitting some inland lakes?

Jon

[Fondueset]

Sounds like it's pretty sandy down there. I also see Drum mainly in august. They cruise the open areas here in the bay and out in the big lack. Out there I found the easiest way to get close to them was to go down and wait. If you can find a dropoff or something - even some rocks for the gobies to hide in - that's where the fish are. Here Lake Michigan has rock fields and marl (clay) beds - though I've not seen any as interesting as what Jon describes - so there are plenty of gobies and zebra muscles for the drum. Still I've yet to find a place in open Lake Michigan that is as interesting as the area I usually dive at the south end of West Grand Traverse Bay. If you can get up here in early spring let me know. I can keep you posted on what's happening - or you could catch the ferry over to Jon's domain. Even right now I'm having a blast stalking walleye.

[fleedermouse]

Wow,

You 2 have no idea what a relief it is to hear this kind of validation of what I have (not) been able to find. I thought maybe I was just some kind of a nimrod and couldn't find the fish. Looks like I will have to head up north and west once in a while. I can't even touch 20 meters yet but now that I am settling into my new environs, I will have to get up there to Grand Traverse Bay for some trips. I can get there in <3 hours so it's an easy overnighter/extended daytrip for me. As for the west side of the lake, I'll make it over there when the ferry starts running again. My wife goes to Green Bay once a month for school so I may as well tag along on my weekends off.

Thanks again guys for the info.

Bret

[Fondueset]

Let me know and I can tell you the easiest access spots to see stuff - all 12meters or less depth - but the dropoff is handy if you want to go a little deeper. Bring a flag and float for sure!

[Jon]

Bret,

If your going to Green Bay then you need to just go a little bit north into Door COunty. There are a ton of shallow wrecks, rocks, small sea caves and other places to dive.

In your area there are one or two shipwrecks, but I think that they re all around 50' deep.


Jon

[fleedermouse]

Fondue-

Got your PM. Sounds like very doable conditions for my current ability. I'll have to head up there the next time the weather looks good and I have some time off.

Jon-

Looks like I need to train to be able to hit those then. Someone told me there is one just north of the N. pier @ Muskegon. That's only a 20 min. drive for me. and it doesn't look like it gets too much boat traffic even in summer.

[wet]

Did somebody say Cold Water? Brrr!

For me that's ice fishing weather back in Minnesota...

I came across these stories in Science Week:

Dating a massive undersea slide
Pieces of 8,000 year old moss buried in debris left along the Norwegian coast by an ancient tsunami have enabled geologists to better determine the date
of the immense underwater landslide that triggered the inundation.

Glaciers give major boost to sea level
The ongoing disappearance of glaciers and other small ice masses
worldwide makes a larger contribution to sea level rise than the
melting of ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica does.

Scraping the bottom
A survey of deep waters in western Lake Superior has revealed the
tracks left by massive icebergs scraping bottom there during the last
ice age.

Has anyone found any ancient iceberg scrapings on the lake bottoms? Maybe a mastodonsickle or submerged mammothberg? How about arrowheads?

DDeden

[Jon]

My father-in-law came across the reminants of an underwater forest out in LAke Michigan and took some wood intot he university to get carbon dated. It came back dated about 10,000 years old.

As far as wrecks go, I am seeing a few just north of Muskegon.

SALVOR: 30' deep, N43 15.49 W86 22.19

HENRY CORT: 50' deep, along north breakwall in Muskegon

MANISTEE: 25' deep, N43 04.75 W86 12.17

Right off of Grand Haven I only see the wreck of the Ironside (110'-125')

Just to the south, of of Holland, there are a few more:

27' sailboat: 22' deep N42 55.73 W86 14.84

Crane and Barge: 45'-55' deep, N42 42.71 W86 13.92

VERANO: 50' deep, N42 30.21 W86 15.96

Now, it seems that there are two other areas further south from you that may be of interest. They are not wrecks but some of th clay mound formations that we get over on this side of the lake.

The first one is called the SOUTH HAVEN CLAY BANK. They are in 50'-60' of water but come up off the bottom over 15'! They are part of a mulit acre anchient beach zone.

The second one is shallower, only 25'-40' deep, and is made up of a combination of clay banks and concrete structures that were dumped there inbetween the clay mounds. It sounds like it would be a haven for fish. The numbers for it are: N42 25.484 W86 16.999. It's called DONNY'S REEF.

Jon