Lessons learned - a SWB Story

[Gail_Berke]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

Gail I don't know the meaning of "choker" and "snug" words, but we wear whistles with a very tight rubber elastic strap around the neck, tight enough so that it doesn't dangle, not so tight to give any strangling feeling. With the wetsuit on it's still comfortable even if tight. When you need to use it you just grab it and pull it up to your mouth (it's elastic).
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Fondueset the Catholic Church is not a "fairly recent political movement": it's rather an ancient one :-&

A choker necklace is just as you described how you wear the whistle around your neck. Thanks for the reply.

And BTW, Gail Berke isn't my real name. I'm Laura.

[naiad]

Originally Posted by Fondueset

Here in the states we fairly recently had a political movement which advocated teenagers abstaining from sex until marriage. They denied funding to any form of birth control or education on the grounds it would encourage teenagers to have sex.

Good point. There will always be someone diving alone, because of lack of a buddy, wanting to be alone, ignorance or stupidity. If the reason is lack of a buddy, wanting to be alone or ignorance, threads like this one and many others contain many safety tips which can save lives. At least those who continue to dive alone will stand a greater chance of survival if things go wrong.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

Gail I don't know the meaning of "choker" and "snug" words, but we wear whistles with a very tight rubber elastic strap around the neck, tight enough so that it doesn't dangle, not so tight to give any strangling feeling. With the wetsuit on it's still comfortable even if tight. When you need to use it you just grab it and pull it up to your mouth (it's elastic).
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Fondueset the Catholic Church is not a "fairly recent political movement": it's rather an ancient one :-&

Laura, I use thin bungee as a short necklace to carry my car key. Not as tight as a choker but it needs to stretch to go over my head & is short enough to keep the key well above my loading pad, inside my wetsuit.

Spaghetti, sounds like you got a safety proper whistle while SettingSteel & I got the rejects that don't work. Mine are bright orange, pea-less, "safety whistles" and are supposed to produce some extremely high db sound but they just don't. Ultrasonic dog whistle?! The whistles that came on the buoyancy aids (& life jackets I used in the past) were also rubbish - that's why I bought new ones. It's a good idea though (I was thinking of carrying one on the float) just need to find a decent whistle.
We'll let that religous comment slip by as you're Italian and used a small font. Next time: Spanish Inquistion for the heretic.

[BatRay]

I can see how a whistle could come in handy. However, given the loss of motor function that Willer mentioned, would it be difficult to fish the whistle out of your suit and hold it if you were suffering from SWB?

[efattah]

I'm very happy that Colin got out of the situation alive.

However I disagree with the general direction of the thread.

Once again, we see the same old concept:

- Dive with a buddy and you will be okay
- Dive alone and you will probably die

I strongly disagree. In many cases, diving with a buddy is more dangerous than diving alone. This is especially true when you get a false sense of security, thinking that you can stay those extra seconds because 'you have a buddy just in case.'

Of course, in the IDEAL situation of a strict buddy system in perfectly clear water, it is the safest setup. But MOST of the time, the 'loose' buddy system in less than perfect visibility creates even more danger.

So, always remember -- it is good to dive with a buddy, but every time you dive, assume that you are diving alone, and never assume anyone is going to rescue you from foolishness.

[BatRay]

How should we then dive? I mean, Willer took reasonable precautions, and still he blacked out, and he was without a buddy. People can black out with buddies and it can be a close call. You're taking a big risk either way, but where does the risk really lie? Is it mostly an issue of overconfidence? If so, at what point does it become overconfidence? I confess this whole issue confuses me, because there doesn't seem to be a solid way to take safety precautions.

Or maybe I just need to take the PFI courses...

[BennyB]

I think that we have to look at a couple of things here. First, every time we jump in the water we have to accept a certain level of risk. Second, we have to understand that some things we can influence, some we cannot. After Colin's experience it's reasonably clear that you cannot 100% control the factors that lead to blackout. Therefore we should always assume blackout as a scenario that will happen at some point. The risk actually lies with the blackout recovery, not the blackout itself. The way you handle the recovery is the way you control the danger to yourself.

It's only when that point is accepted that you can start looking at safe water practices (ie. bottom line is don't dive alone).

[jome]

Benny, that must be one of the best posts I've read on deeperblue...

[jome]

I think if you take Eric's (wise) personal point of view "Always ASSUME like you're diving alone and make your divers according to that assumption" and Benny's Organizational point of view (I consider a buddy pair to be an organization) of "Always ASSUME there is a black out and be prepared to handle it".

If all divers followed that advice - we'd see a lot less fatal or serious accidents. Preferably both, but even one would already be an improvement.

[azapa]

excellent points. Assume you have to watch your own a.s even when with a "buddy"

Snorkel question bearing that in mind: surface with or without as part of drill? Looks like it may have saved Amphibious?

Scenarios:
1. surface BOed, fall flat on face or remain vertical (probably a little negative after pre-surface BO exhale): no snorkel, no larygospasm and you'll suck water
2. surface BOed, fall on back (can't see it happening unless weight belt ditched), with snorkel in and you'll suck water, without and your fine.

Interesting to hear Amphibious mention that he sometimes replaces snorkel in mouth just before surfacing..

Opinions?

[Fondueset]

First - I agree with Benny and Eric; Theres no room for fundamentalism in freediving.

I'm very much enjoying the analysis taking place in this thread. I think understanding everything we possibly can about SWB and all other risks is our responsibility as divers.

I dive alone frequently. If I didn't I'd hardly dive at all; and I love to dive. I mitigate risk by diving shallow and doing long dives only when I am well rested, relaxed and able to really feel myself. Since I am often engaged in the very focused activity of photography I have a sort of 'kill switch' in place - a psychological mechanism that helps me let go of even the most perfect pending composition when its time to surface. While surfacing I relax and focus within - making my movements as relaxed and efficient as possible; head level but for an initial boat check. I never take the duration of a dive for granted - I never check my times while I am down or dive with the intention of staying down long.

I've noticed any exertion really cuts into my times and requires a longer breathe-up. Even lifting my head out of the water to look around pretty much means starting over again. Since its cold this time of year my breathe-ups tend to be shorter - so I accept the fact that my dives will be short and - particularly if the chill has set in; I'll shift my focus from photography to brief fin sprints.

The Buddy situation is difficult. For Photography having a buddy hovering over me spooks the subjects. Some species here are very wary and will spook pretty much out to the edge of whatever the visibility is.
I am the most competent diver here so I am very conscious of anyone I'm diving with - dives with others are therefor more stressful for me and I generally accept that my times will not be nearly as good. I spend a lot of energy keeping track of where everyone is.

The most relaxing diving I've ever done with my daughter was in Telegraph Cove - Each diver there was stunningly competent but a strict buddy arrangement would've been extremely difficult to implement. We were all there, and checked in with eachother periodically, but we'd have had to be diving on a line to keep track of eachother.

I think breathe ups and the trip up are particular opportunities to focus within and really sense your state. This awareness is, I believe, extremely important when freediving. I also think letting go and accepting everything about the dive and not getting out ahead of yourself are really important.

Its interesting to think about the role of habit in all this. Eric has spoken of giving himself the suggestion to start breathing when he surfaced on the way up from an overextended dive - I think I remember something about him kicking on autopilot too - but could be wrong. Colin mentioned his habit of putting the snorkel back in. It may be that some of these behaviors carry over even as we lose consciousness and it might be that we can, to some extent, program ourselves with optimal surface protocol in the event of a blackout.
You just have to use all of your intelligence actively. The myriad factors involved exceed our capacity to quantify. Freediving is an exquisitely demanding activity.

[spaghetti]

Although this may sound pathetic, somehow I feel like I always dive with two buddies: they're my wife and my 3 years old daughter waiting for me at home. They couldn't help in the case of an incident like the one occured to Colin. But so many times, when a fish is too deep or takes too much time to come at range, I hear the voice of my baby saying "please, daddy, let it go".
Pathetic as can be, I know, but it has worked so far.


PS-I agree with what Eric Fattah and Fondueset said, 100%.

[surfunc]

We frequently use the buddy system for spearfishing here in Florida, but it's not perfect, and in bad visibility it's impossible to keep track of your buddy, the buddy often keeps their head above water to wait for the diver to break the surface due to the bad vis.

I think the foghorn thing is a great idea and pretty easy to set up, does anyone know of such a product? If the horn is loud and has a sufficient duration (over a minute in length preferably) then it would be perfect here in Florida as we are always within 100 feet of each other.

[azapa]

surfunc: i am a big fan of the vest so will defend: the vest is designed to put you on your back

[surfunc]

Originally Posted by azapa

surfunc: i am a big fan of the vest so will defend: the vest is designed to put you on your back

You're right, I was just reviewing their website and see that the design will not allow you to float with your face in the water, thanks for the correction.