Static PB's

[Erik]

Originally posted by valerio
... but don't forget the 12' 34" of Gianluca Genoni and still fresh and 100% oxygen saturation level in the tissues when coming up ....

but maybe the trick of a bit hyperventilation with pure oxygen before the trial is not allowed for a real wr

Pellizzari did nearly 20 minutes on pure O2, and an American Navy subject did over 20 minutes on pure 02. Then there are all the yogis pushing 25 minutes with air!
Cheers,
Erik Y.

[jero]

Originally posted by Erik

Then there are all the yogis pushing 25 minutes with air

...after exhaling!

[cheese]

All these amazing results in static after breathing pure oxygen make me wonder....
I've never tried it myself, and there are a couple of things I do not understand.

The breathing reflex (and contractions) is mainly triggered by elevated CO2 levels. I would imagine, that even if your tissues are really saturated with O2 after breathing the pure stuff, your cellular respiration would still churn out just as much CO2 as normally.
If this is the case, then your breathing reflex should kick in just as early as normal. That would make the last 14 minutes or so of a 20min static pure agony of suppressing a huge breathing reflex and terrible contractions.

Is there a flaw in my logic, or a gap in my knowledge?

Also, what about CO2 toxicity?

[efattah]

Contrary to popular belief, CO2 is not the main breathing stimulus. It is true that under normal conditions (i.e. atmospheric pressure, atmospheric air), CO2 dominates the breathing reflex, but under unusual conditions (i.e. hyperbaric and/or pure oxygen), O2 dominates. If the O2 level is huge, breathing reflex is suppressed regardless of CO2 levels. When PaCO2 > 90mmHg, CO2 narcosis sets in, after which you have about 90 seconds before you black-out from CO2 narcolepsy/toxicity.

In the presence of a small amount of CO2, low O2 is the main breathing reflex.

So, the breathing reflex = F( CO2, O2 ), which forms a nice 2D surface.

So, during a pure O2 breath-hold, unless you hyperventilate, the breath-hold will end when you black-out from CO2 narcosis.

I tried a pure O2 breath-hold once in Florida. After 4 minutes I just stopped because I got bored.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[pkotik]

Eric, is the mechanism known whereby O2 assumes the role of
dominant trigger under unusual conditions ? I thought the
dominance of the CO2 trigger was rooted in morphology, i.e.,
large numbers of CO2 sensors.

[efattah]

The mechanism by which the body detects its O2 level is not well understood. I recently read a paper where a researcher claimed that one of the cytochrome species is the oxygen detector. His theory was that cyanide induced hypoxia does not produce breathing stimulus, and cyanide binds to the cytochrome's Fe[3+].


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[TMcKee]

In a decompression chamber you breathe pure oxygen and it all but eliminates nitrogen from your system. So, I have to agree with everyone else. Oxygen, in certain circumstances bonds quicker with hemoglobin and forces oxygen saturation thereby forcing nitrogen out of the system.

Also, you must consider that the air we breathe consists of:

78.084% Nitrogen
20.946% Oxygen
.033% Carbon Dioxide
.0934 Argon

The higher % of oxygen we take in obviously means that there is more oxygen to use in one breath. Thereby creating a longer breath hold. Your body still churns out CO2 at the same rate, but your oxygen content is higher than 21%. You must also consider that when we breathe air we only use 5 to 6% of that 21% anyway.

Tmckee

[BatRay]

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a static PB?

[Erik]

No worries Bat Ray, sometimes we get carried away with the terms....not as bad as the military, but still
"Static" in this case means to hold your breath without moving. "PB" stands for Personal Best, which can sometimes seperate it from an attempt made at a competition in front of judges. A lot of us have our Static PB's on the living room floor!
Cheers,
Erik Y

[BatRay]

Could you also please explain: what is 'no limits', and 'constant ballast'?

I like reading freediving posts, but it helps to understand them.

You guys are pretty intense.

[Erik]

No problem
Constant Ballast is a competition term for "pure" freediving, in which the diver descends and ascends under his or her own power. If the diver wears weights, they must return to the surface with the diver. There are different ways to do this; with bi-fins, a monofin, or no fins at all.
No Limits means the diver can use whatever technology and equipment to reach the bottom and ascend. This is usually done with a weighted platform that slides down a weighted line. The diver typically ascends with an inflatable lifting bag (inflated by a compressed air cylinder).
"Variable" is where the diver uses weights or a platform to descend, but must swim or pull himself up the line.
"Dynamic" is where the diver swims for distance horizontally on one breath; usually in a pool, sometimes with fin/fins, or no fins.
Chers,
Erik Y.

[MaxDream]

My personal best in static is 7'09'' which I did on 2002-11-01 during training for the static competition of the Pacific Cup.

My personal best in a competition was 6'21'' at the Pacific Cup.

My best dry breath hold was 6'37'' in August 1998. That's when I stopped training dry because it was frustrating being unable to do 5' wet. Now I think I could manage to do about the same time dry as wet but wet is much more comfortable.

Here are some more statistics about me if you are interessted:

Name: Dominique Ventzke
Age: 23
Height: 187cm (6'1'')
Weight: 74kg
Lung Capacity: FVC: 8 Liters; FVC w/packs: 10.5 Liters

The biggest lung capacity I have heard is the one of the Hubert Maier, too - 10 liters without packing and 14.6 with packing. He is very impressive.

-maxdream

[efattah]

Dominique-- Do you pack for dynamic, and do you pack for static? You have nearly exactly the same FVC's (with and without packing) as me, and I'm wondering how do you overcome the buoyancy problem in dynamic.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[MaxDream]

Hi Eric,

I do about 10-15 packs for dynamic attempts of 100m+ and about 15-25 packs for static atempts. My maximum packing capacity is about 30 packs.
Actually I do not feel the bouyancy problem in dynamic maybe because I am quite fast (32'' at 50m, 66'' at 100m and 100'' at 150m) but I know that I am wasting energy on balancing the bouyancy. I have not yet tried to use weights. Weight belts are too uncomfortable with a monofin. If I find some time for it I will build myself a neckweight like the one Herbert uses (out of bicycle tube, soft lead and some tape).

What kind of weight do you use for dynamic and constant weight if you use weight at all?

I read some posts you have written and assume that you are very interessted in freediving statistics. Thus, I have a statistic question that you maybe can help me answer:
What are the fastest times for constant weight dives deeper than 50m you have heard of?

You also wanted to know about the 16x50m point system. Here is the formular from the German rules:

achieved points = (600/achieved time[in seconds]) x 100
or shorter 60000/achieved time[in seconds]

-maxdream

[efattah]

For constant, the weight I use depends on my wetsuit. For the 82m record I used a 1700g neck weight, and no other weight. This was actually too much! Right now it's winter so I use both a neck weight and a huge weight belt (for my 5mm/8mm config). I just ordered the sporasub 7kg weight 'harness' and I'll see how it works for my thick wetsuits.

In the pool, I can't do good dynamics without a wetsuit. I get too cold, and I don't have enough momentum. I need to have lots of inertia, so that I can reduce the number of strokes, and put more energy into the monofin on each stroke (because the greater inertia allows me to flex a stiffer monofin). I use a 3mm full wetsuit, with a 6kg belt and 1.7kg neck weight. However, with this configuration I must go slowly, otherwise the weight belt causes too much drag. I pack to the maximum for dynamic, but not for static.

The fastest deep constant weight dive I have heard of is Pipin Ferreras' 60m in 1'21, using sporasub pure carbon bi-fins. I know that Guillaume Nery and Manolis Giankos dive fast, and I think Alessandro Rignanilloli did his 88m italian record in a fast time like 2'22 or something.

I know that Hubert Maier took 3'20 for his 60m dive in Nice/2000, which is two minutes longer than Pipin takes (1'21) for the same depth!

At Pipin's speed, a 100m dive would take 2'15, and 120m would take 2'42!


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada