Beyond 6:30 in static apnea

[SEDATE]

Today canceled!..
i fell myself very tired..i do not know why!...
3 days later start again

[kingohyes]

Long statics with short rest periods can be very demanding both physical and mental.. Seems like your body needs a rest period, this will have a positive effect on your endurance.. However it has been said that Tom Sietas does a max hold every day..

[SEDATE]

You exactly right! i do 4 or 5 days max 2 days rest

[SEDATE]

Tyler
This morning wake up and not decide to make breathhold first!..
i wanted to measure my pulse ..the pulse in normal 51/53( max 55) but this morning ..it was 49..last night i slept very well ...maybe the reason.
i said to myself why not!..lets' go beyond 5:30...
anyway..be sure 3 or 5 times i meausered it was exactly 49-50 bpm ..
i do not know when first constartion came..
i manage to hold nearly 6:00 it was 5:50(new PB)
Close the end of hold... i felt i never wake up...i was really very deep sleep
is it normal? No Samba/No Bo..
From now on...i ll give my body relax 3-4 days..
i think my immuno sytem went down..
i fell myself very tired.. i also have headache
All the Best, Sedate.

[jome]

Originally Posted by SEDATE

Tyler
T
Close the end of hold... i felt i never wake up...i was really very deep sleep
is it normal? No Samba/No Bo..

Sounds like you were SEDATEd Sorry, could not resist the obvious and lame pun...I'll shut up now...

Yeah...But seriously, sounds like rest is a good idea (it is anyway).

High co2 could explain the headache, but the "now waking up" sounds a bit scary.

[SEDATE]

Originally Posted by jome

Sounds like you were SEDATEd Sorry, could not resist the obvious and lame pun...I'll shut up now...

Yeah...But seriously, sounds like rest is a good idea (it is anyway).

High co2 could explain the headache, but the "now waking up" sounds a bit scary.

Thnx ..Jome

[tylerz]

Originally Posted by SEDATE

i manage to hold nearly 6:00 it was 5:50(new PB)
Close the end of hold... i felt i never wake up...i was really very deep sleep
is it normal? No Samba/No Bo..
From now on...i ll give my body relax 3-4 days..
i think my immuno sytem went down..
i fell myself very tired.. i also have headache

Hey great job Sedate! Must be exciting!? I found I had best results when metabolism was lower at rest, such as early morning or just before bed. Feeling like you are asleep during a static is common, not necessarily at the end if you are really focused on trying to push a bit more. What was the end of your static like, say for the last 30secs?

I have to reemphasize NUTRITION and certainly rest. Take a break from statics and research the body and how it functions. It is easy to get so excited that we find ourselves comfortable doing regular statics, however that has to be complemented with ensuring the appropriate nutrients are be supplied and maintained to the body. I have been reading some stuff recently that suggests how easily one can induce a state where delerium and permanent brain damage can occur without the appropriate nutrition. This is with regard to any form of exercise (physical exertion).

I intend to gather a clear and concise log of these findings to share, but I don't have it as such at the moment, so please look into it yourself. The simplest form of recommendation, from what I have gathered so far, would be to ensure you have a standard daily intake of nutrients such as the link below, complimented with increases in nutrients that act as anti-oxidants, and before performing statics a high carbohydrate diet, the night before or three to five hours before.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/etext/000105.html

I am beginning to sense from my findings that resting above what is considered normal, is not necessary, albeit safer and more practical for most people due to what I suggest next. Over a rest period we have a much higher chance of recovering the requirements of nutrition, even if we are not purposefully intending to. This is because we tend to not repeat eating the same thing each day and the nutrients can be found in many foods, just not in concentrated proportion. Therefore over a few days of rest you will get the nutrition but achieved by eating much more to get the balanced amount. We could have gone each day without resting if we stayed on top of our nutrition in a strict and knowledgeable manner. This is supported by the idea that some of the atheletes have not been resting in between. Still researching...

Cheers

[laminar]

Over a rest period we have a much higher chance of recovering the requirements of nutrition, even if we are not purposefully intending to. This is because we tend to not repeat eating the same thing each day and the nutrients can be found in many foods, just not in concentrated proportion. Therefore over a few days of rest you will get the nutrition but achieved by eating much more to get the balanced amount. We could have gone each day without resting if we stayed on top of our nutrition in a strict and knowledgeable manner. This is supported by the idea that some of the atheletes have not been resting in between. Still researching...

Hi Tyler,

Neat idea! Seems like a simple and obvious one (one that I hadn't considered before), but it seems right to me especially after having tried out certain "workout" nutrition approaches and still feeling run down until I take a rest period. Then, big surprise, my physiology seems to have caught up with the stresses being placed on it earlier and a new performance level is achieved.

This begs the question whether some of this apnea training is too intense for our assumed nutrition and rest requirements. How "intense" is apnea training really in all its variations, both in terms of the exercise reps themselves and the session over a period of time (say a week)?

Tom Sietas does max reps most days, but getting there required a complex balance of nutrition, rest, and intensity that was not too much at each stage, but just enough.

I think many have experienced the burn out after getting excited with fast progress in apnea. I certainly have. Then the body seems to fall apart, mentally and physically. I find this especially challenging while working at a regular job, when schedules make for apnea sessions during traditional meal times, meaning that you gain even less nutrition and at non-optimal times of the day for your training. No wonder I've experienced that kind of burnout frequently.

So Sedate, rest is good. I once rested for 6 months and came back to apnea with a very healthy static time.

Pete

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by tylerz

and before performing statics a high carbohydrate diet, the night before or three to five hours before.

Hi Tyler, except having it to work, why is that? and what kind of carbohydrates?

[Bill]

Great static Sedate. Congratulations. This is probably how you progress. A small change and/or a short break after you seem to be 'stuck' at a certain time. One of the very best told me that this was the way it happened for him when he made his last PB.
You also posted a few days ago about not feeling well and cancelling the training. This often will work but another way is to train anyway and make it an easy day. Your body will get used to the ups and downs and will help if competition day you don't feel 100%.
Aloha
Bill

[SEDATE]

Originally Posted by tylerz

. What was the end of your static like, say for the last 30secs?

Tyler
the last 30 sec..i start feeling soft pain and constaraction in my belly only forced 30 sec while holding breath i created a film in mybrain...a gate(door) in dark and i passed from the gate and start hanging on around like a silly when i felt strong constraction in my bely i said time has come to return to the gate..This idea came to my brain while listening ''the screen behind the mirror album-Enigma''. music was on.. but i was in deep and peaceful not exactly sure but after 4+ i start not hearing anything i think i passed from one dimention to another
as a meal night before before big hold i got spagetti and made of cauliflower+potato+olive oil meal and as a drink 1/2 orange juice(fresh squied) and last before sleep drink 1 big glass grabe molasses melt in water..this things made me strong
Now!...searching what kind of fruits or vegi consist of NUTRITION to Recovery and Katabasis relaxation technique i heard it but have got no idea about it ...today i am ok..i will give a break for about 10 days to breath hold(dry)..i will move to my family tomorrow (450km away) and will swim in the sea...tempurature starts goes over 25+ and suny days starts i will make some soft wet static in the sea ...Cheers Sedate!

Originally Posted by laminar

So Sedate, rest is good. I once rested for 6 months and came back to apnea with a very healthy static time.

Pete

Thanks info Pete... i remember from jump 4:50 to 5:30 was after 15 days break... Cheers Sedate!

Originally Posted by Bill

Great static Sedate. Congratulations. This is probably how you progress. A small change and/or a short break after you seem to be 'stuck' at a certain time. One of the very best told me that this was the way it happened for him when he made his last PB.
You also posted a few days ago about not feeling well and cancelling the training. This often will work but another way is to train anyway and make it an easy day. Your body will get used to the ups and downs and will help if competition day you don't feel 100%.
Aloha
Bill

Bill
as you know i stuck 4:30 for about 2 or 3 months i remember i disappointed at that time stuck all the time at 5:01 and more 4:50 ... i said to myself this is all my best i can do i gave up holding breath for a while(10-15days).. ...i do not know what happened... but happened something... jumped to 5:30 in the first big hold and following the day i did not sleep very well 4:00 am sleep wakup 8:00 am therefore i canceled! i was really too tired..
1 day break
and following the day i was really ok and 10 hrs i slept in bed and before the night i got strong meal more water, too
second hold 5:50 i mean all happened in 3 days
Cheers Sedate!
All the best!

[tylerz]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

Hi Tyler, except having it to work, why is that? and what kind of carbohydrates?

The "why" is complex in terms of what my reasoning/intuition is, and I have lots more to flush out in what I am learning before I can say with strong confidence one way or another. But a key source of my inclination is that blood sugar and oxygen are the source of energy to our cells over relatively long periods of time (ie. statics), therefore you don't want to start a static in a state of low blood sugar nor low oxygen. If you load yourself with something readily converted to blood sugar, then you will ensure your muscle and liver stores of glycogen (readily converted to glucose upon low blood sugar levels) are topped up and your blood sugar will be relatively high. However, supposedly immediately after ingesting a concentrated source of carbohydrates, the body actually raises in metabolism as it becomes active in digestion, deals with a high level of blood sugar, releases insulin, and converts excess glucose to fat. So, ideally you want to have considerable time between the last time you ate or drank a sugary drink and your static. That changes if you are actively exerting yourself... then a sugary drink can actually replenish you without rest and does not cause the problems associated with taking it prior to exertion.

Anyhow, too much to express at this moment and not organized enough to do so. Travelling at the moment.

It is suggested that effective carbohydrates would be dried fruits, potatoes, white pasta, white rice, corn, etc... These aren't considered very healthy foods in many circles, therefore I am not inclined to use them for general nutrition, but instead just as a performance preparation.

Hope that assists for now... stay tuned.

[jome]

I think that if you've had a lot of sugar or carbs right before static, it also raises the repiratory quotient, which unless you have very good co2 tolerance can make the static unbearable, even if you have plenty of oxygen.

If I've understood the thing correctly, the difference is quite remarkeable. After fasting, RQ would be close to 0.7 and in pure "carb mode", 1.0...?

[tylerz]

Originally Posted by jome

I think that if you've had a lot of sugar or carbs right before static, it also raises the repiratory quotient, which unless you have very good co2 tolerance can make the static unbearable, even if you have plenty of oxygen.

Yes, with the rise in insulin, this inhibits the mobilization of fat (conversion from stored fat to mobile fat in the blood), therefore most energy would be derived from glucose. Glucose having a higher RQ (CO2/O2) than fat, would imply higher CO2 levels.

If I've understood the thing correctly, the difference is quite remarkeable. After fasting, RQ would be close to 0.7 and in pure "carb mode", 1.0...?

Supposedly at rest the average persons burns around 60-65% fat and most of the rest as carbohydrates. 0.7 is the RQ for fat and 1 is the RQ for carbohydrate, which gives around 0.82 for an RQ if you were maintaining a standard carbohydrate diet.

[Oligo]

Talking about "alkaline" and "acidic" blood and body fluids is rather silly, as humans cannot easily survive blood pH outside the range of 6.9-7.9. Thus when you say that you have "alkaline" blood, you actually mean that you have managed to accumulate a lot of buffer capacity to buffer the effects of carbon dioxide on the pH of your blood. And so "acidic" blood really means low buffer capacity.

Buffer capacity and pH are different things.