Static with no warm-up

[naiad]

Hi Don,

I haven't measured my SaO2% in wet or dry statics, but I have measured my heart rate and it is always very high. My resting hr is at least 80 and it sometimes falls slightly during a static, but it also sometimes gets faster.

I am sure that a sudden drop in SaO2% is the cause for my LMCs, so if I can stop this happening, the problem will be solved.

Lucia

[BlueIcarus]

Don... you have to share that freediving gadget-engineering-knowledge!

[Ricky Eiken]

Good day All !

Here is my 2 cent on the matter.
I’ve been doing Freediving for almost 6 years now and my strongest discipline is the static. I started by the normal 3 warm up and then go for max, but then approx 3 years ago switched over to go for max in the first try, due to 2 reasons in a competition you just get 1 try, and second a bit lazy
This approach works great for me, I can get off watch at midnight (I’m a navigator onboard a gas tanker) go to my room, lay on the bed and rest for just 5 minutes, breath deeply for 3 times and do approx 7 minutes every time (PB 7:08 in this way). I give some credit to this time that I do this training every single day.
I hope that this might inspire someone to give this approach a try as I’m a believer of max in 1st

[donmoore]

Lucia,
Heart rate seems to be a very personal thing as people have all different resting hr’s. I’m no expert, but here are a few observations I have made using my pulse/oximeter and keeping records for just over a year now. My hr inversely correlates pretty closely to SaO2 drop. When it is low, the SaO2 drops slowly.

Two controllable variables that effect hr is the breathup and the mind. A forceful breathup will make hr high. Best to use mostly the diaphragm and the lower lungs in the inhale and breath out slower than inhaling. I find using the upper lungs, probably because of the chest and shoulder muscles, really increases hr. Using the partway closure of the mouth to increase resistance of the exhale and thus slow it works good too. Although I think my best oxygenation and CO2 elimination happen without using the mouth in the exhale and I can do it without increasing my hr, but it is more difficult to do it consistently.

With the mind, an elimination of all thoughts, or just the best you can, lowers the hr. When you hear someone say this, it doesn’t mean that thoughts don’t come into the mind, but more of a controlling them, by gently pushing them aside.

And of course the best way to practice hr techniques is with some type of hr monitor and readout. The mental effort and inaccuracy of trying to count beats and time, I don’t think will allow a person the peace and space to practice the techniques necessary.
Just my two cents,
don

[BlueIcarus]

Hey I used to wear a heart rate monitor only for cardio exercise..until I discovered
that doing a dry static while watching my HR was very useful to low your heart beat.
Suddenly you manage to drop it and your mind-body tandem actually 'learns' this state
and can recall it at will. For me it actually took 5 minutes to know what was the mental quiet state that made my HR drop around 38 bpm. Suddenly if I found myself
thinking LOUDLY, I saw this number go up like 40..50..60 and then f*ck up the static.
Yeah I know this monitor is 30-60 euro range and not everybody can afford this but..
you can always borrow one fome somebody and experiment
As Don says.. is also good to experiment with the breath-up. I know that even hyperventilating violently my HR actually don't go beyond 90 bpm and 10 seconds from the breathold it drops to the low 40's.. so high HR is not a concern if i do violent purges (but.. yes the CO2 drop and excesive alkaline IS a problem so i take three tiny breaths afterwards to correct this)

Also my 1 1/2 cents

[derelictp]

Donmoore;

For me there is a very clear fact, the more hypocapnic I am the higher the pulse gets. In the water I dont hear my breathing like I do at home so I often tend to ventilate harder in the pool causing my alkalinity / pulse get higher.

Maybe it's the same in your case?

Try different ventilations and watch your pulse.

[naiad]

Originally Posted by efattah

The no warm up training may have put you into compensated respiratory alkalosis. Basically it means that you have an increased amount of bicarbonate buffers, which would make you more alkaline, but because during your everyday life you only breathe when you feel like it, then the breathing is delayed, accumulating CO2 and balancing your acidity to normal levels. At that moment your acidity (blood pH) is 'normal', except you are not 'normal' because you have more CO2 and more bicarbonate which 'cancel out.' The difference happens when you hyperventilate, now you get rid of the extra CO2, and all that is left is the extra bicarbonate, making you now super alkaline.

This might explain why I often find myself holding my breath when I am relaxed. It could be a way of allowing CO2 to build up to restore the balance. I also often hold my breath in my sleep.

Lucia

[ADR]

New PB in Dynamic for me (113m) using no-warmup/no-breatheup. Contractions started at 40m and I stopped when my legs couldn't go further due to the lactic burn. Very clear headed all the way

Andy

[Ricky Eiken]

To ADR

Congratulation on your PB in dynamic keep those high numbers coming

[naiad]

Wow! 113m! Congratulations Andy!

Many freedivers who do good dynamics say that their contractions start very early - maybe this is necessary.

Lucia

[BlueIcarus]

ADR and naiad.. this is a good point... your contractions started at 40m and you got to 113m??
Freaking amazing! My contractions start also between the 35m-45 mark and my max should be around 75m (hehe shy maximum ) so.. maybe I should spend more time past the contractions...
What do you all think about this? When do you get contractions (% of distance) on your dynamic maximums?

[BennyB]

Hi all,

I have been struggling to keep up with this fascinating thread which is growing at the rate of knots! I have been training with ADR and Watts and the week before last tried the dynamic no warmup/no breathup for the first time. My previous PB was 107m which was set a few months ago and I haven't got near that since. The first session using the no warmup/breathup I did 75m, next week I did 83-85m and last night I hit 100m. Contractions started fairly early (bit before the 50m turn, but I am known for my early and strong contractions) but did not have their usual jackhammer feel. What really surprises me is mental clarity at the end of the dive. Also i've noticed how out of breath I am, really puffed for a minute or so after the dive, which I didn't seem to get using my old breathup pattern.

I'm very curious to see how this pans out...

Cheers,
Ben

ps to Lucia's comment on holding breath in your sleep - I got in trouble for this from the wife the night of my 100m dive

[jome]

On the subject of sleep.

I've had some moderate success with the no-warmup training, although my training is not quite pure: I still do statics in a series, but I've shifted focus on trying the max on the first one, instead of doing a couple of easy ones.

I've noticed on two training streaks of a week or so of almost daily statics, that I will start to wake up at night for no apparent reason, after a couple of hours of sleep. Of course this could be totally unrelated, but I can't help but think this has a connection. Maybe I go into such deep sleep apnea, that I'm forced awake or something. It's kind of a scary thought. Pretty hard to monitor though...

Has anyone else had similar experiences? I guess it's sign that I should be taking a break.

[BlueIcarus]

Hi jome.
This thing you talk about (sudden wakening up in the middle of a night's sleep) is a thing that
happens always to me if I'm overtrained. From cardio or for apnea.. if i go too hard I don't sleep well and have this moments you comment (all over the night maybe 4 or 5.... counting
those ones I can remember but the feeling is that It happens every 15-30 minutes). BTW tonight I had one of these... yesterday I did 1 hour swimming with around 10 minutes of hard intervals and also some hypoxic swimming... But the time i ended the training I knew this problem is going to pop at night. I can go 2-3 hourse easy steady cardio and no problem but If I do sprints or some kind of anaerobic workout it taxes my body a lot. Maybe not the same problem as you, but my experience
Also I find that overtraining from apnea is much much more easy than cardio... and hypoxic work lots harder that hypercapnic

Cheers!!

[kingohyes]

Are you kidding me, maybe this was the reason that I woke up about 10 times yesterday.. I had been training really hard dynamics.. Well it might as well be the food I ate right before I went to bed.. I have never eaten so much before bedtime..