Static with no warm-up

[jome]

Wow, what a post. Makes a lot of sense when you put it that way.

Even with just a week of trying this method, I'm now able to reach over 90% of my pb on a single max static. Of course that has nothing to do with adaptations to the spleen etc, that would take months/years I assume, but it does prove that reaching my old pb this way is very likely. And so getting past that would seem likely too. So there's no reason not to train this way. It's also nice, that this method doesn't take so much time and drain you out like an hour of warmups, and therefore it's possible to do it almost daily.

When I was writing my previous post, I was battling with the thought of letting go of warmups. I was very tempted to try for a normal pb today, but I'm glad I didn't. There's psychological aspect to it as well. When you know you're only going to do one, you will be able to squeeze more out of it. If I had the luxury of doing many, I would've propably quit earlier thinking "ok, this will be just a warmup". But now, it was just "either do it or don't" and suddenly I found this all new mental reserve and just let go of contractions. I no longer doubt that this method is something worth dedicating a lot of effort to, but it took some convincing to the old noodle. It's hard letting go of those old routines and nice times.

Another nice effect is, that you don't depleat your self with static warmups and I was able to set a dynamic pb on the same session. Should be useful for those competitions, where static and dynamic are on the same day (at least the way it was here in the last pool competition)...

[kingohyes]

Lovely theory Eric, and it really made sense.. This is the first good explanation of what contractions may be.
Still im not yet sure for how long I should wait before doing a new max static after 1st attempt. Im currently doing 3 statics on a row with a 5 minute break in between.. Should I increase or decrease the break between the max statics?

[donmoore]

Eric's spleen contraction theory might help to explain my dry static yesterday. I usually do one warm up and then go for it, but after bailing out at only 4 minutes on the second one, I decided to do a third. This one appeared to be doing very well and I tied my all-time SaO2 on the pulse/oximeter at 3 minutes with a 100% reading. This has only happened once before. Things looked great, but then the meter started falling, by 5 minutes I was at 80%, which was a disappointing 7% points below my best for 5 minutes.

Could it be that what contributed to my best SaO2 at 3 minutes was the spleen was already contracted? And since it was it could not contract much more and make more blood and O2 available later in the hold?

This might also explain why some times a high SaO2 later in the hold resulted after a lower SaO2 earlier (when compared to previous recorded results). Usually a good SaO2 early on for me will mean high SaO2s through out, but sometimes this rules doesn’t hold.

A lot of things Eric said make sense. The example of good divers with lots of experience being able to dive their max in only 1 or 2 dives is something I have observed too.
don

[O'Boy]

My results from yesterday support this theory too.

In my first hold I nearly broke 5 minutes (4'56"). Contractions came soon as usual (1'56") and their rate was somewhat higher (10 in a minute) at the beginning. To my surprise, after 3'00" of contractions (35x), their rate hasn't droped as I have expected (15 in a minute) = maybe spleen contraction?

On my second hold after relaxing for 10 minutes was able brake 5 minutes (5'31"). My first contraction came later (2'20" = spleen contraction from the first hold?) and their rate was a bit lower at the beginning, but in the end, after 3'11" of contractions (40x), the rete was much higher compared to the first hold.

I'm posting my humble results, 'cause I want others to see my progress. I know these results aren't the proof of this theory, yet they may give others some courage. When I'd red Laminar's posts in 'Beyond 6:30' thread, I tried this 'First go' static and was so disappointed after getting contraction at 1'57". I stoped at 2'10" very frustrated. Now I get contractions at exactly the same time, though this time I'm not doing breath-up like I was then.

[Jason Billows]

Interesting posts Eric.

They got me thinking about the benefits/limitations a diver creates for themself just by getting into the water prior to a static. If simply getting into the water induces some diving reflexes, is it a good or bad thing to get wet before a static to relax and do facial emersions?

It would seem to me that some of the diving reflexes like bradicardia would be beneficial, but vasoconstriction could limit your ability to build up oxygen stores in the tissues of your extremities. Is the vasoconstriction at that point significant enough to adversely affect your static?

Another thought... does anyone know if the speed at which some diving reflexes are induced affects the speed at which others will follow. For example, if bradicardia and vasoconstriction can be induced quickly, will spleenic contraction follow more quickly? If so, would it be more beneficial to do statics without a wetsuit to induce the early diving reflexes more quickly?

I would think that the speed at which spleenic contraction starts wouldn't necessarily affect the length of a static as the oxygen stored in the spleen would be limited, but it could make the static more comfortable. With oxygen available from the spleen earlier in your hold it could save you from much of the struggle and give you a mental edge.

Thoughts?

Jason

[Jason Billows]

I'm interested to know people's thoughts on how these discussions affect constant training.

While I think that the benefits of no warm-up/breath-up in static will apply directly to breath hold time in constant ballast, it could work against the need for pressure adaptation.

Are negative pressure dives before a constant attempt necessary to prepare the lungs and diaphram for the pressure they will experience on the dive itself? Or, is diaphram stretching and pressure simulation something that should be done in training on a regular basis to build flexibility and preparedness, eliminating the need for negative pressure dives prior to a contstant attempt?

I would think that negative pressure dives would certainly start spleenic contraction before the constant attempt itself. Then again, as constant dives are typically much shorter than static performances, this could be a good thing. Thoughts?

Jason

[kingohyes]

Hi again..

I did my first no-warmup, no breath-up training today, dry. I did 10 minutes of relaxation, inhale and go. This pattern I followed for 3 statics on row.

1. 3.28 (62! contrations started @1:46)
2. 3.35 (90!! contractions started @1.45)
3. 3.40 (92!!! contractions started @1.53)

I was very pleased by the times I achieved in my first session with this no breathup method. I would have expected a time around 2 minutes
What surprised me the most, were that I was able to withstand 92 contractions on 3rd attempt. When I did my record of 5.15, I dont think I had more than about 50-60 contractions.

The contractions came early, and this frightened me a bit, since I would have expected the contractions to be as hard as they were with a breathup.. Luckily they weren't

I will post my results on this page, I even made a excel document with a chart/diagram where I can follow my progress..

I hope that all these contractions doesn't mean im in bad shape.

Kingohyes

[watts]

Did my first no hyperventilation one hold static then. The contractions did come earlier aswell at about 2.30 but nowhere near as bad as with a breathe up. I managed 3.33 on my first try so ive got something to work on. With a breathe up i wasnt getting them till about 4 mins but they would then come on hard and totally wreck my static ,my pb being 5.05 . Im definetely going to persist with this i'll keep you posted Cheers & HAPPY NEW YEAR

[O'Boy]

Hey, Kinghoyes and Watts.
Good to see some other people trying this method too.
Your results are almost the same as mine. Now, it's important to proceed every day and increase the number of contractions, or even better increase the time spent with them. Don't worry about the time when they start, that will only disturb you.

It's important also to concentrate on your first hold. There should be the best conditions for MAX static. Your first hold prooves that, Kinghoyes.
You had 62 contractions in 1'42" and in your third hold you had 92 contractions in 1'47".

Yesterday, I nearly broke my 2 years old, absolut PB in static (5'44"). After 10 minutes of relaxation I did:

5'31" (@1'48", 40 contractions in 3'43"!)

My goal was to withstand more contractions then day before (35). I was not aware of the time so I stoped the hold after reaching 40. If I knew the time I would push it a bit more. In fact, I felt very good in the end. Contractions were tolerable and their rate hasn't raised too much. Maybe it's time to try my max with this metod.

This may be just my subjective feeling, but I feel really fresh after such hold. It needs only 2 breaths to recover. Compared to my feelings after doing 5'30" in the old way, there is definitelly an improvement.

Wish you all the best in the year 2005.

[watts]

In fact, I felt very good in the end. Contractions were tolerable and their rate hasn't raised too much. Maybe it's time to try my max with this metod.

I felt exactly the same. Other than tommorow i will do 1 max static per day and post here again in a week. Later Nathan

[kingohyes]

Im pleased to hear about your progress O'boy. I believe there is no reason to push it for a new PB, it will probably come by itself on training..

Do you only train statics? I don't have access to the pool this week, so I guess this week will be a week of dry statics lying on my back

I see no reason not to adopt this method into the dynamic training

btw, im not doing 3 statics on a row anymore, I will start doing 1 instead.. I dont want to overtrain you know

I believe 5 training days a week would be necessary for improvement.


Kingohyes

[watts]

Just wondering if everyone whos trying this no hyperventilation 1st hold statics are doing any pack stretching prior to thier holds and are you packing for your hold and how much . I find that doing my dynamic prep 30mins of stretches and pack stretching really relaxes me and seems to get my heart rate down .
Cheers Nathan Watts

[derelictp]

Hi,

I've had a cold the last week so have not done much training.

Today I managed the pain of 57 contractions starting at 1'50'' and I gave up at 4'08''. That's the most I've done.

I noticed that the "pain" is worst between 7 and 25 contractions, then the pain fades and after 30 it's getting warm in the head, the bloodpressure rise.

[kingohyes]

Thats exactly how I feel it too.. My head feels like its going to blow.

After 30 contractions, I have about 1-2 contractions every second, I can't seem to slow them down..

[derelictp]

My head seems relatively clear though... I try to "listen" very careful to the signals.

The CO2 makes it very hard because I get confused and can't lie still.