Static with no warm-up

[quasimoto]

Watts-

I too do some pack stretching before my hold. I basically just copied tom sietas's method of doing a 100% pack around 3-5 minutes before my hold, and hold the max pack for about a minute. On my breath hold i pack about 50 percent, or however much feels comfortable.

[kingohyes]

The C02 makes me sit up for the final 10-20 seconds of the breathhold.

[quasimoto]

I find when i do my MAX statics, i actually get a better time if i stand up and walk around my room during the last 15-20 seconds of it. I know it burns up a lot of valuable oxygen, but i simply get too uncomfortable sitting down near the end, and standing up will help me add 10-20 seconds. All of my pb's i have stood up and walked around

[O'Boy]

After 9 days of max training in a row, I had to take a brake. The reason for that was serious headache I experienced after doing max static on Friday.
I believe the headache is caused by very high levels of CO2.

In my last training I managed to do 4'57" (@1'50", 31x, 3'07"). I was actually trying for a new PB. I felt depleted right from the start and I couldn't push it further. It was obvious I needed a brake.

Now I'm concentrating on static, though I am about to use this method in dynamic too.

I also do pack stretching 10 minutes prior to the static. Then just relax.

It's interesting that we all have almost similar experiences with this training. I too have strong temptation in the end of max static to move, yet I am able to fight it and relax. If sombody prooves that moving in the end has some benefits I will do it too. Now I think that it just gives you conciliation of the pain, though doesn't give you more time. (I may be wrong)
I don't want my hold to be easier, I want it to be longer.

[kingohyes]

I have taken a break for 2 days now.. I had some serious headache, and my times were going down. I believe I was a victim for overtraining :9

[Bindlestitch]

So does using this method mean that all of the breathing excercises we've been encouraged to do as freedivers is null and void? If there is no breath up then you can't use your deep breathing techniques.
I am subscribing to this method as well but was just wondering if any of the breathing excercises we've heard so much about are any longer useful (in the event this method is superior).
Great thread guys.
Later,
Stitch

[jome]

I've never been a big believer in breathing exercises anyway, since most of them, at least the way done by most freedivers, is just a funny form of hyperventilation. "True breathing techniques" I'm not qualified to talk about.

[derelictp]

I dont think we can really know.

No records that I know of is set without some kind of breathup, or am I wrong?

If I should compete today I know I can do , right now at least 1'30'' longer with warmup and a controlled breathing lowering the CO2 a bit.

But maybe at last we all find that no breathup/warm up is the best....No one knows until it's proven.

One thing is shure for me; I am going to train this way as a part of my training.

[Oligo]

I'd like to add one pointer to this discussion: If Sietas is indeed doing a pack and hold lasting one minute before his max attempt as said by Quasimodo, this short hold qualifies as a warm-up. The reason for this is that an apnea of 1 minute in an elite freediver is enough to contract the spleen almost completely as reported by Bakovic et. al. (2003) in the Journal of Applied Physiology (95:1460-1466). According to this study, the spleen begins to contract immediately after the onset of apnea and reaches minimum size after about 90s of breath-hold. Thus, when Sietas does his max hold, his spleen is already contracted and the extra 8% of red blood cells are already coursing through his veins.

Just my two cents.

[naiad]

I have been trying to do statics without warm-up and it works very well for me! At first it was exhausting and I didn't like it much, but now it is much easier! I haven't managed to do a max time in this way, but it is good training. I haven't been able to do any pool training for about two weeks, because everything was closed for Christmas and the New Year, so I have done a lot of dry statics with the new method. My PB (using my normal warm-up) is now 5:30!!

I can't wait to get down to the pool.

Lucia

[O'Boy]

O.K., how about this:
Yesterday, I was able to brake my 2 years old dry PB (5'44") using No Breath-up and No Warm-up. I did

6'06" (1'54", 45 contractions in 4'12")

This was done after 12 days of doing repetitive max holds using this method.
Compared to those 2 years of trying with all kinds of warm-up and breath-up, this new approach for me is like gift from heaven.

It would be interesting to try my old warm-up now, to compare the results, yet I see no use in it anymore.

Hope to see some similar results coming from you, guys. Wish you all strong minds to master the contractions.

[Roland]

Wow, great thread.

I think Oligo and derelictp bring up a valid point.
Relaxing/ focussing, a breathe-up, pack stretches are all forms of warm-up. They are different than doing several statics as a warm-up but are still a warm-up. I even heard of people liking to "under breathe" by doing 30 minutes or more of pranayama as preparation for static.

One can train to be able to perform with several kinds of warm-up.

The less exerting/ tiring a warm-up the fresher the body is when doing a maximum. This favours a gentle warm-up (like the "no-warm-up" method) over a long and exerting series of statics as a warm-up. Several great theories have been posted here about the subject.

I heard of experiments where people control vasoconstriction just by thinking about it. I do not have references at hand but several studies have been done. The great news is that control over reflexes like these can be trained.

I think good freedivers can turn on reflexes like vasoconstriction, spleen contraction etcetera relatively fast by just thinking about it or focussing on it. Training this would make a short preparation or possibly even just relaxing possible as a warm-up, keeping the body fresh for a maximum breath hold.

Training reflexes the right way seems to be important. The exercises suggested by e.fattah sound like they might help to train the reflexes to be able to use a gentle warm-up without preparation breathholds.

[derelictp]

O'boy;

YOU KICK ASS!!

Congrats

[O'Boy]

Thanks Peter. Now you know of at least one record, which was done without any kind of breath-up (even though, it's just my personal record).

I am curious where are my limits using this method. So far I was only adding 5 contractions to my previous PB (# of contractions). How many will I be able to add again? Sooner or later, I will find the answer. I will be happier then. It's sort of unpleasant feeling, not to know if I am even doing 100%. That's very important in this method.

Today I am going to try my best in wet static.

One advice to all who are trying. Take a lot of sleep, otherwise your head will explode.

Regards

[kingohyes]

Im so happy for you O'boy.. This is a step in verifying the hypothesis..

I have developed a little cold, and headache from the training, so i will start over again tomorrow, or thursday.. Also, I am eating loads of calories and taking loads of antioksidants and Iron..

6:06 is a very good time.. Good luck on your wet training


Kingohyes