Apnea Diet

[diveoceanos]

Originally Posted by cigarlung

DIET changes have a powerful effect if you have reached a plateau in training. Perhaps are nutrician and training are excellent already however we have reached a point in training where we just are not improving and so we find special new foods or supplements that others claim will improve are performance. We beleive this person with this product or special diet has the answer the power of belief has a powerful effect on are increased performance.

Cigarlung, what you are describing above is 100% valid and accepted by the researches. It is known as the placebo effect. And that's why in a proper reasearch this effect should be ruled out or eliminated by using a control group that takes an identical pill or solution or whatever, under identical conditions and then the results are compared between the two groups (test and placebo), to check if there is any actual difference. Some times both groups show a change but the change is similar or not statistically different.

[sanso]

diveoceanos,

You seem to know a couple of things of medicine and physiology - as is to be expected from someone with a pharmaceutical background.
You seem - however - not to realize that what You know might not be all there is.

Nutrition in Sports is a well developed science, and the physiological effects of nutrition are well described. There is lots of literature on this topic to be found on pubmed.

As You wrote Yourself, You have little experience in freediving, so I'd like to suggest You stick to posting things that You have experienced Yourself or have well-founded knowledge of. You say You have a scientific background, so why don't You use that background to get up to speed in this particular science and then come back with any questions or objections You might (will?) have.

Science is nothing without experience. Please accept the fact that many people here have taken a scientific look at freediving and been freedivers for many, many years and know a couple of things one doesn't learn in pharma-class. This is not to say that whatever You learned at uni is useless or bad, but in this field it is just not the whole truth.

With regards from Germany,

Richard

[shoutatthesky]

Jeeeeez !!!!! You guys are being so hard on poor Sotos. He has made some good contributions and he has mostly had negative replies. Is there something about him some of you know that make you react in such a way. This treatment is not usual for new members. Why is it different for him?

[diveoceanos]

Originally Posted by sanso

diveoceanos,

You seem to know a couple of things of medicine and physiology - as is to be expected from someone with a pharmaceutical background.
You seem - however - not to realize that what You know might not be all there is.

Nutrition in Sports is a well developed science, and the physiological effects of nutrition are well described. There is lots of literature on this topic to be found on pubmed.

As You wrote Yourself, You have little experience in freediving, so I'd like to suggest You stick to posting things that You have experienced Yourself or have well-founded knowledge of. You say You have a scientific background, so why don't You use that background to get up to speed in this particular science and then come back with any questions or objections You might (will?) have.

Science is nothing without experience. Please accept the fact that many people here have taken a scientific look at freediving and been freedivers for many, many years and know a couple of things one doesn't learn in pharma-class. This is not to say that whatever You learned at uni is useless or bad, but in this field it is just not the whole truth.

With regards from Germany,

Richard

I am hearing what you are saying. Thank you for your valuable advise and for your nice input

Perhaps you could be a little more specific on the objections you have about my posts. Any recommendations for good reading?

[ADR]

Originally Posted by shoutatthesky

Jeeeeez !!!!! You guys are being so hard on poor Sotos. He has made some good contributions and he has mostly had negative replies. Is there something about him some of you know that make you react in such a way. This treatment is not usual for new members. Why is it different for him?

...I have been wondering the same thing. I think it might relate to the notion that most new members show a little more humility which is sort of normal in any community or social group for a new comer in their early days. I'm not sure if the response or perception of lack of humility from Sotos comes from:
- English not being his first language (lost in translation)
- a perceivied arrogance that can come with "formal" knowledge and/or from the scuba world
- relating too much of his scuba knowledge incorrectly to freediving
- assuming that current formal research is where the leading research in this area only exists
- wanting to be perceived as an expert on arrival in DB
- or something else entirely

Those items are not MECE and I probably should have thought about them some more.

Having had the reaction you refer to myself in another thread I'm becoming a little intrigued by the whole thing and questioning my own attitudes etc.

[trux]

I just want to add my voice in support of diveoceanos - I value his contributions in this as well in other threads highly. Regardless if I agree or not with the facts he states in this thread, we definitely need this type of discussions where arguments from experts may be exchanged. With all my respect to Sanso, I think he overreacted in this case and owes Sotos an apology.

It would be very sad if experts like Sotos were lynched and hunted off the forum just because they are new and politely disagree with some residents. I am letting aside the other thread http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediv...g-schools.html - I still could understand the overreaction there, but seeing the animosity repeated toward Sotos in this thread too (and without any reason), could create the false impression we are xenophobic here at DB. I am sure that the majority of DB readers appreciates the information exchanged in this thread as much as myself and sees no reason for silencing Sotos.

[diveoceanos]

Originally Posted by ADR

...I have been wondering the same thing. I think it might relate to the notion that most new members show a little more humility which is sort of normal in any community or social group for a new comer in their early days. I'm not sure if the response or perception of lack of humility from Sotos comes from:
- English not being his first language (lost in translation)
- a perceivied arrogance that can come with "formal" knowledge and/or from the scuba world
- relating too much of his scuba knowledge incorrectly to freediving
- assuming that current formal research is where the leading research in this area only exists
- wanting to be perceived as an expert on arrival in DB
- or something else entirely

Those items are not MECE and I probably should have thought about them some more.

Having had the reaction you refer to myself in another thread I'm becoming a little intrigued by the whole thing and questioning my own attitudes etc.

Andy, you are probably right about the perceived lack of humility. But I wonder whether it is just a perception because that does not fit as a feature in my character map. Many of your thoughts might be a part of the answer indeed. I am a newcomer and some people here are well established and highly respected and I dare to speak to them directly maybe in way that has been perceived as by-passing of the hierarchy? Could an other part also be the fact that in most of the cases I wrote something with my really bad English (that could have been wrote much better) and instead of getting any advise on how to express that more accuratley, I reveived an attack just like I was an alien? Me in turn reacted to the attack? Natural human reaction.

I would like to mention that the only English books I read are science books and I am doing this since I was in the university. Not too much information in the Greek bibliography, for many subjects. I admit that I can not express my self in English and I am using babelfish occasionaly for many words that I don't understand.

Of course I am familiar with the ongoing debate between SCUBA and Freediving. But I would also like to mention that I never managed to understand why this can happen and I was never belonging to any of the two "opposed armys". Today a lot of SCUBA divers are also Freedivers and vice versa. Among my best friends are Freedivers and Spearfishers, and we never had any disagreement. As long as there is mutual respect and empathy there will not be any conflict. I never understood the tendency to insist that they are tottaly different instead of trying to find areas of common interests.

SCUBA diving and Freediving are quite different indeed. But is that a reason for not learning one from each other? Some principles are common. Try to see them, and you would probably realize that I am not talking non-sense here.

When I firstly came in this forum my impression was a big WOW. Too much information in here, and too many names. The impression is still there. Simply amazing. Anyone who is actively involved in Freediving, at whatever level, may get a benefit of just reading here, the posts that indeed have many prototype ideas some unique techniques. One may even get ideas on how to proceed with formal research if he belongs in that field as well. This is a community. We are talking about enrichment of views and perceptions. I tried to make a couple of posts and have seen some good reactions and some bad ones. OK I admit, I am not the type of person who walks-in and post in the who am I section and then try to be polite with everyone until he become accepted. It is a matter of character. That is simply not me. On the other I am not sarcastic, I am trying to be polite to anyone. But one part of myself that I hate, the really bad me, is when I engage in reactive behaviour due to my perception that occasioanly some people do not respect and be unfare.

I am not after any recognition for who I am or what I have to share. I would rather be more interested in acquiring information and knowledge from all of you, who are experienced. If you are a little more generous and discuss with me that would be an honour for me. Even if my ideas might be a little bit heretic or seem to be non-sense some discussion would be more than welcome. I am not attacking anyone and I do have some opinions on certain things. I might be wrong and I would appreciate any help to change my wrong views, or to increase my knowledge.

[shoutatthesky]

Diveoceanos, I welcome your contribution. We ALL have something to share.

Re: Apnea diet - Do many of you avoid dairy products? If so, why?

[fcallagy]

I agree that sotos has been getting a hard time but think sanso was voicing his opinion politely. I think the freediving schools thread rubbed people up the wrong way even if they were just reading the thread but think sotos should be allowed the same rights as everyone else. He broke no forum rules I know of and we usually are a welcoming bunch, maybe we can move on from here in any case.
To try to stay on topic: Adam I dont avoid dairy products and have some butter and milk everyday but I am not a top level athlete if I cant equalise today, I can go back tomorrow. If I am heading away to a course or planning to do some static training i may avoid caffeine and lower my dairy intake from a fear (whether real or not) of an increased mucous build up making equalisation harder to do.

[sanso]

Yep, I overreacted.

Sotos, please accept my apology. You did have a bad start here, it seems. It's good You still keep it up and You'll see we're not as bad as it might seem.
I can find some of the items on ADR's list still lingering in my head, but my last post here was somewhat overshot.
Andy, true as well. This encounter with Sotos is a great chance to rethink.

As for the dispute between free- and SCUBA divers, I hardly get the feeling that there's much of a front between the two here on DB. Quite some notable members are active in both and don't get any abuse (for that, that is )

And something on topic at last:
I don't avoid dairy products in general - I like cheese and milk far too much for that - but I do avoid them when diving, especially in cold water. In the summer I have no trouble with a bit of milk in my coffee (yes, I need coffee in the morning, even when diving ), but in cold water, dairy products will clog my sinuses and tubes up and I'll be out of the water in no time, not being able to equalize properly.

Sincerely,

Richard

[cigarlung]

I changed my diet 8.5 months ago to Vegan to improve my heart health since heart disease is the number 1 killer in the states. Working in health care I have seen many healthly people active people who have had heart attacks. I am cheap by nature and do not want to have to take expensive medications or pay for trips to the cardiologist. I have ate in the past typical high fat diet which I have always felt good on however knowing my in the past my cholestrol was way high gave me no peace of mind and was sceptical on safety of statin drugs today I got free cholestrol screen today and I am a bit bummed score cholesterol 154, HDL 30, LDL 89, triglicerides 177. I exercise doing aerobics of some sort 5 to 7 days a week. My big indulgences are drinking a couple cokes a week coffee 1 to 2 litters a day and potato chips or corn chips 1 or2 times a week. I am thinking of trying niacin however am open to new ideas other than fish oil mercury concern thanks for your input.

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by cigarlung

am open to new ideas other than fish oil mercury concern thanks for your input.

I read in a few places that some research has shown that 1-2 teaspons (IIRC, if not then spoons) of olive oil a day for 2 weeks lowers LDL levels, maybe you'd wanna look into it.
As for fish oil, the products I saw claim that there are no heavy metals in them, could be true - not sure how that would work with a vegan diet though, as it's mostly an ideological diet.
1-2 litters of coffee a day sounds like a lot to a non-american. IIRC coffee is lipolytic, if that is the case then it might raise your blood fat tests....

[naiad]

One thing which can raise the 'bad' cholesterol is hydrogenated vegetable oil. This is found in many processed foods, including vegetarian, vegan and 'healthy' ones.

[devondave]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread or whether this question has been covered elsewhere . How much do people eat before a day's freediving ? There must be a relationship between the amount of food in your stomach and lung capacity , I tend not to eat anything in the morning , but then get a bit low on energy if doing a day's spearfishing . Any advice would be appreciated .

[monkeyhatfork]

I think the main thing is to have a gap of a few hours in between eating and diving- Right now I eat oatmeal and a banana 3hours before seems to work, I think avoiding fatty stuff is good. You don't wan't the digestion process stealing blood/oxygen from your dive---- I also take a bottle of water with recovery vitimin b,c stuff in it just before or during diving to maintain.---------------has anyone out thier tried goo packs for diving?