Apnea Knee Bends

[wes]

I have been wanting to do some dryland aerobic apnea training and don't have a rowing or stationary bike machine and aren't really that excited about apnea walking as I am tall so its along way to fall and I typically train in the middle of the night as my days are spent working and chasing our 2 year old Zan. So tonight I made up an excercise called "Apnea Knee Bends" and it goes like this:

Sit with your back agaist a wall with knees bent up agaist your chest. Then with a watch every second entend one leg then bring it back up then switch to the other leg. Timing goes like this:
0:00 Start with both legs up at chest
0:01 right leg fully extended (left leg kept up by chest)
0:02 right leg bent back to chest (left leg kept up by chest)
0:03 left leg fully exteneded (right leg kept up by chest)
0:04 left leg bent back to chest (right leg kept up by chest)
repeat so every 2 seconds both legs are bent up by chest.

I did this while breathing normally for 60 seconds then held my breath for a 60 seonds or longer while keep doing the knee bends as long as seemed reasonable. Regardless of how long I held my breath I would start another breath hold every 2 minutes and I did this for 20 minutes.

Results:
-I did all holds at least 60 seconds.
-Longest hold was 1:40 seconds (100 sec total) with 64% min show on SA02 finger meter (saturated Oxygen meter)
-Lowest SA02 was 62% with a 1:30 (90 sec) hold which was also the last hold.
-When I did the longer holds like 1:40 with only 20 seconds to recover it was harder to do another long hold "back to back" so I would do then only 1:10 or so. Not sure if it would be better to go to 3 min intervals and do longer breath holds with more recovery in between or not.

I am interested to see how other people find this excercise to do. It would be great to hear back from some beginners to try this and some intermidiates and a few +7:00 min static "experts" as well. If you don't mind to post your times and also if you think this excercise is beneficial training.
I am "advanced intermediate" with PB static 5:45 sec.

Cheers Wes

[shoutatthesky]

Interesting exercise. I haven't tried it but will give it a go.

I would be very interested to know more about the "saturated oxygen meter". Where can I get one?

[wes]

Dear Shout,

I use a Nonin fingertip pulse oxymeter. There are some other threads on accuracy and use of pulse oxymeters on DB is you are interested. Because it senses the blood that is in the fingertip there is about a 20 sec delay from the low oxygen blood to get from your brain to the sensor. Also dive reflex shunting can throw sensor off as blood flow to arms can be restricted. That all being said I love my Nonin sensor. It seems to correlate very well to me percieved O2 state, ie when it is in th 60's I feel need to breathe alot, when in the 50's it feels a bit sketchy and when it the 40's it feels a bit "scary" or close to the edge. My lowest reading was at the pool after a dynamic, it read 47%. Here is link, they are about $300. I have the model 9500, I would probably buy the newer model 9550. The model is not sold as water proof or water resistant so I am very careful to never get it wet so pool use is only for "special" occasions. Another option is to haunt e-bay for used pulse oxymeters sold from hospitals, there are various threads on this as well.

Pulseoximeter- oximeter

[cdavis]

Hi Wes,

I've got the same reservations about apnea walking. The ground around here is hard. I do some but don't push it as much as it should be pushed.

Tried your idea and got up to 1:40, after a one minute pause, but it was a stretch. I was alternating between 1 minute holds and 1:30-1:40 holds. I don't have an 02 meter, so go on feeling. It felt not so extreme as apnea walking. I get a funny tingle and tremble in my hands, strong lactate burn in the legs, and a shaky feeling when I push it apnea walking. I got some of that after 1:05 with your idea. Seemed like the C02 level got me before the 02 level dropped extremely low. Could also be the lower exertion level and sitting position makes the symptoms different. I'm not sure. I'm going to play with this some more, seems like it has potential.

On the cycle time, logically a shorter recovery time with fast breathing should result in lower 02 levels, I think. That works apnea walking with just taking 2-3 fast breaths and keep walking. You can achieve a fairly low 02 level on a continuous basis by blowing off the C02 before 02 levls can be restored.

I'm curious, could my 02 level be dropping as low as yours? That would be a bit scary.

Did your 02 readings get progressively lower as the excercise continued?

Connor

[wes]

Connor,

Yeah it is not really clear to me what is beneficial, is it a high level of C02 or a low level of 02 that stimulates more hemoglobin production and general body adaptation. As far as the SA02 oxygen levels read out, they stay at around 98% for about 1/2 of the breath hold (this is when there is still plenty of 02 in the lungs). Then the 02 levels drop off slowly for the next 1/4 of the hold (this is where the rest of the 02 from the lungs is getting used up). Then for the last 1/4 of the hold the 02 level "plummets" (this is where the 02 from the lungs is pretty much used up and you are using up the 02 stored in the blood by the hemoglobin). This is kind of simplification though pretty accurate I think.
cheers Wes

[cdavis]

Wes,

I'm going to try this 1/2 lung and maybe full exhale. That works the 02 end of things harder and I'm curious to see if I can push myself deeper into anoxia (without falling down). Any opinion?

I did not make myself clear on the "progressively lower" 02 levels. What I meant was: did the minimum 02 level drop lower and lower with each repitition of breath hold?

Thanks

Connor

[wes]

Connor,

No, the 02 always comes back to 98-100% during the recovery, even if its only 20 seconds. The difference in the minimum 02 at the end of each hold is purely how long I "push" the hold. The thing that most people don't understand that have not used an 02 meter is how quickly the 02 comes back up to 98-100% during recovery breathing. It's pretty amazing, maybe 5 to 10 sec max and its back to 98-100%. Now venting off the C02 takes longer (I assume) though I don't have a C02 monitor so this is just my belief from reading DB and my understanding/experience of my training. Fully purging C02 back to kind of a base line level takes 30 sec to 60 sec in my experience (depends on how hard you breathe).

Cheers Wes

[IronLung]

[quote=wes;639091 As far as the SA02 oxygen levels read out, they stay at around 98% for about 1/2 of the breath hold (this is when there is still plenty of 02 in the lungs). Then the 02 levels drop off slowly for the next 1/4 of the hold (this is where the rest of the 02 from the lungs is getting used up). Then for the last 1/4 of the hold the 02 level "plummets" (this is where the 02 from the lungs is pretty much used up and you are using up the 02 stored in the blood by the hemoglobin). [/QUOTE]

This sounds interesting. I wonder if it would be beneficial to do multiple breathhold up to the point where O2 levels "plummet" in the last quarter and stop right there? I.e. about 3/4 breath hold each time.