flushing sinuses and pushing limits

[SEDATE]

Hi Ben
i tried a few times to dive -50m but all time as you said i stucked -30 or -32.. meanwhile .. i never remember equilization in water..directly diving into deep.. my ears equalise itself and never wants any help from me..moving my chin very slowly left/right it equlise or sometimes it does itself ...after -30m everythings stop and a word comes from my body says go back...it equalise itself why it stop line -25/30 ? forced one time i dive to -39m /-41m..don't ask me why?
i am sure i felt a very little pain in my ears after -35 , i had turned around like a deaf for 2 days..
why my body never let go deeper..i am getting crayz for that..
sometimes i ask to myself do i dive -100m ? Yes ...i got a rope -100m and look at it from a point to another it appared in my mind like -20m.. this idea makes me believe Yeah! it is so easy to go below -50m..
my plan is to try next time by flusing all my sinus.. this time i will check what my body gonna say?
anyway Ben i hope you would have understood my english and my question...

addition:
deepwater technique(??)
can you open it a little bit more what exercise you suggest for it

[BennyB]

Originally Posted by SEDATE

Hi Ben
i tried a few times to dive -50m but all time as you said i stucked -30 or -32.. meanwhile .. i never remember equilization in water..directly diving into deep.. my ears equalise itself and never wants any help from me..moving my chin very slowly left/right it equlise or sometimes it does itself ...after -30m everythings stop and a word comes from my body says go back...it equalise itself why it stop line -25/30 ? forced one time i dive to -39m /-41m..don't ask me why?
i am sure i felt a very little pain in my ears after -35 , i had turned around like a deaf for 2 days..
why my body never let go deeper..i am getting crayz for that..
sometimes i ask to myself do i dive -100m ? Yes ...i got a rope -100m and look at it from a point to another it appared in my mind like -20m.. this idea makes me believe Yeah! it is so easy to go below -50m..
my plan is to try next time by flusing all my sinus.. this time i will check what my body gonna say?
anyway Ben i hope you would have understood my english and my question...

addition:
deepwater technique(??)
can you open it a little bit more what exercise you suggest for it

Are you equalising hands free down to 30m? That is impressive. I managed to equalise hands free in a 3m pool once but haven't been able to do it in open water.
Forcing equalisation is bad - I did it in my first competition, I nominated 40m and couldn't equalise past 35m, so I rode the last 5m and it hurt! As a consequence I couldn't hear very well for a couple of days afterwards.

My opinion on sinus flushing is that it could be dangerous if you are jumping from say 40m to 50m or 60m as you will be making big jumps that may lead to a lung squeeze, as you don't have the time to adapt to diving those depths than if you were limiting yourself with the time it takes to learn dry equalising.

I think theoretically everyone should be able to equalise to 50m without flushing the sinuses. I have great trouble equalising to 50m and usually I run out of air between 45-55m, depending on how I feel on the day. However I have done almost double that by having my head upright, so I know that physically it is possible, I just have to work on my equalising technique.

Deepwater technique I am just talking about the sink phase of a dive, learning when to slow the kicking down and when to stop kicking and sink, and when to stop kicking on the ascent.

Cheers,
Ben

[sanso]

Sedate, this worries me.

I have told You this in private, and here goes another warning.

First I hoped this was a language barrier thing, but from what You asked me and are writing on here, I can only see that You are not aware of the implications of what You are doing and trying to do. You are experimenting with quite advanced and potentially dangerous depths and techniques without knowing enough about the background and the risks involved.
Diving that deep without proper preparation might inflict permanent damage, even death.

Take classes, read books and - most importantly - heed the advice given to You by those who have been where You want to go.

If at the moment You manage to go down to 30/32m, then do that until You are comfortable reaching that depth, and then go for 33 or 34.
Do Your reading on the Frenzel and mouthfill techniques and get comfortable using those.

I wish You all the best for Your diving. Stay safe,

[SEDATE]

Ben
i thank you in deed..
did -17m max by sinus flushing dive .. first practiced at -10m a week than tried -17m in first attempt..
i find out it is so easy cos' you do not think equilize
while acsent(return cycle) the water push you step by step increasing speed.. i open my hands paralel and my palms looks up(like vitruvian man of leonarda vinci) to decrease the speed..it works but not very well. ..
i go deep like a frog style..i spend more energy i can only try 2 times max a day
i wanna do it natural way.. no weight(2kg)..no glasses..what comes into your brain?..if you imagine this kind of dive?

[SEDATE]

Originally Posted by sanso

Sedate, this worries me.

I have told You this in private, and here goes another warning.

First I hoped this was a language barrier thing, but from what You asked me and are writing on here, I can only see that You are not aware of the implications of what You are doing and trying to do. You are experimenting with quite advanced and potentially dangerous depths and techniques without knowing enough about the background and the risks involved.
Diving that deep without proper preparation might inflict permanent damage, even death.

Take classes, read books and - most importantly - heed the advice given to You by those who have been where You want to go.

If at the moment You manage to go down to 30/32m, then do that until You are comfortable reaching that depth, and then go for 33 or 34.
Do Your reading on the Frenzel and mouthfill techniques and get comfortable using those.

I wish You all the best for Your diving. Stay safe,

i thank you for thinking of me Sanso
you helped me a lot all the time..thanks again!
i ll think on your advices

[Erik]

Sedate, please consider that even a 5 metre improvement beyond a Personal Best is very large. Best Practices (based on observed accidents and successes) states that we should move down a metre or 2 at a time, over a longer period of time. So a 10 metre depth improvement over a PB might take 2 weeks of diving every day for example, or longer if it's challenging.
We've seen some bad lung squeezes that have eliminated freediving from a few peoples' list of activities.
We've also lost friends here for various reasons and it's not pleasant.
Good luck and take your time- freediving is not racing!
Warmly,
Erik Young

[spaghetti]

Sedate, take care.
I have no doubt you will reach this goal some day. Your love for the sea and your determination speaks out: yes, you can.
But are you sure you can do it NOW?
From 32 to 50 is a big improvement, too big IMHO. It's a big step from your previous personal best, your goal is very deep, and moreover, you didn't mention of anybody qualified being next to you for specific training in preparation before the attempt, and neither for qualified assistance in case of accident during the attempt. This way it's a big NO.
Follow Erik's and Sanso's advice: learn, read, dive, improve step by step. And you'll make it some day.

[Marwan]

This reminds me of my spearfishing buddy..i rarley train for freediving, more of a spearfisherman myself..so anyway we were in sharm the 2 of us and we cannot fish there so we were training on freediving with Ashod our friend and Egyptian champ. My buddy's PB at the time was 30m and mine was 20m...ashod was training to 40-45 easy...but his PB was 70m so 40 is easy for him. anyway my buddy decided to take it up a notch and went to 40m (he didnt tell us he was about to do this)..so we felt he was taking longer than usual to surface..i went down to about 10m to meet him..few seconds later , he was rushing past me to the surface, away from the rope, moving hands and legs finning franticly...
i went after him and as he hit the surface he blacked out..mind you this was the first time for me to see a blackout, his eyes were rolled back and was breathing/panting heavily, and then the breathing stopped! i sort of knew what to do from my rescue training in scuba..took off the mask, blew on his face and he came to..ashod also heped me and kept me confident that we are doing the right thing and that he will be alright...
so take care and dont push your limits man...
until this day, the image of his eyes rolled back especially the moment his breathing stopped and the feeling i had for the seconds he was out is one i will never forget, a constant reminder to keep within limits and ALWAYS have someone watching you..many thoughts raced through my head during those seconds, what will i tell his parents, or his fiance sitting on th beach and not aware of what just happened..today i think what would have happened if we werent there..scary stuff..
take care my friend..its not worth it at the end..better to be safe and dive within your comfort zone and progress slowly with knowledge and experience..
dive safe

[fflupo]

to dive below RV is highly intense in training and learning to use certain tools like mental and body relaxation,frenzel and mouthfill,.. get prepared and adopt your system to this powerful environment slowly, there is no short cut,if you try to cheat by using inadequate technics and/or pushing it you will become part of the natural selection

[SEDATE]

i wanna be honest all of you . i have no rage in my blood... first accept this please...
it is not so easy to explain to all of you why i wanna do it .. But i ll try a little bit
Something calling me to deep ... maybe deeper... maybe deepest point..
There is no word to expain the reason.. if any body knows who can tell to me
i remember(many times) i jumped into the sea and always tried to go deep...
This comes from my child.. i asked my mother ..she is old but still alive.. She said i do not know but you are all the time were crazy
To die:
Hıh...maybe tomorrow while walkin' on the street a tile fall down and me gonna die who know?.
To try:
i will try -30m dive flushed sinuses when water start warm(this summer) by natural way(first target) .. i will see what will be..

i did not find any documantaion says: you can get infection(?).. you can get lung squeeze(?). nothing happened when i tried -17m (not to much pressure) ..
under pressure my lung will make vacum effect.. i mean here -30m dive .. my sinuses fully filled up by sea water.. how can i dive with mouthfill ? i can't use Frenzel and mouthfill techniques .i let myself fill up all my sinuses ..and i am sure when i was 1/2 m my head filled up with water
pressure in my lung can give any damage to my ear at -30m???? i am not sure or how can i eliminate this??.. .. my sinuses and my eyes get used to contact with salty water .. vision blurry but not dull
it made me addictive.. i don't wanna use any tools.. i feel the sea.. i fell the water...10x before..
Cheers

[Erik]

Most of us feel that call to the deep Sedate, you are not alone. Whatever you do is the right thing for you, no doubt of that, but just consider your friends and family as part of the equation. Each of us risks our lives every time we dive, no matter how shallow, and in day-to-day life. Birth, life and death are basic truths.
No matter what, I will respect your life and honour it in life and death, just hopefully we all live long enough to share a coffee after a day of diving or hunting.
Peace brother.

[SEDATE]

Thank you Eric..
i am always aware of the danger of the sea..
if i would tell lie to all of you ..i would have lied to myself..
as much as my life i always honest to my family/friends..

[sanso]

Originally Posted by SEDATE

...
To die:
Hıh...maybe tomorrow while walkin' on the street a tile fall down and me gonna die who know?.

When You see the tile fall from a roof, will You jump under it? That argument is not very smart. Obviously we all might die tomorrow, but most of us will try to avoid that.

To try:
i will try -30m dive flushed sinuses when water start warm(this summer) by natural way(first target) .. i will see what will be..

Remember that it is not natural to flush one's sinuses. (Do You ever read the answers You're given?) All diving mammals have found ways to close their nostrils - and that is for a reason. The others were victims of natural selection. And I'm afraid I can see You going there, too.

i did not find any documantaion says: you can get infection(?).. you can get lung squeeze(?). nothing happened when i tried -17m (not to much pressure) ..
under pressure my lung will make vacum effect.. i mean here -30m dive .. my sinuses fully filled up by sea water.. how can i dive with mouthfill ? i can't use Frenzel and mouthfill techniques .i let myself fill up all my sinuses ..and i am sure when i was 1/2 m my head filled up with water
pressure in my lung can give any damage to my ear at -30m???? i am not sure or how can i eliminate this??.. .. my sinuses and my eyes get used to contact with salty water .. vision blurry but not dull
it made me addictive.. i don't wanna use any tools.. i feel the sea.. i fell the water...10x ...

If You are serious in what You wrote above, You clearly do not know what You're doing.
And You seem to be unwilling to minimize the risks You have been told about.

You have been given good advice by many very experienced divers. Personally, I feel You are deliberately wasting our time and putting Yourself and possibly others (e.g. Your buddy trying to rescue You) at risk.

I don't see why You ask questions here if You are not willing to consider the answers You get. If You still want to go ahead, no one here can stop You. But at least think of Your family before You go and risk Your life.

P.S.: Here's some more info on what You're trying to do

[Fondueset]

I have done the types of dives Sedate describes - mostly one day in an inland lake here. I could not see so I simply went as deep as I possibly could before hitting bottom. Water came out of my sinuses for a couple of days - but this was very dangerous due to the risk of infection - freshwater!!
This is the first concern that comes to my mind though I have not researched it - because I do not dive that way now.
I would urge caution, training, education and a very competent buddy.

Maybe talk with Sebastien Murat?

[SEDATE]

Sanso
you could be right whatever you write above and PM
you are not right only in a point the word: wasting our time and putting Yourself and possibly others
Be sure that! i just want to know and willing to minimize ALL the risks . That' s all
Take a hot Coffee and be Relax. Think that all of us hooked to Sea's Blue
Cheers!