CO2 tables and contractions

[Arjen]

I've had a discussion on CO2 tables and contractions. Are you supposed to have contractions during CO2 tables or shouldn't you? The discussion centred on proloning the easy phase of the hold versus training your body to handle a high CO2 concentration.

Currently I do tables of 3 minutes breath hold and a recoverytime starting at 1:30 and going down 15 seconds. In total 8 holds and two times a recovery of 15 seconds in the end. The first hold I always start to have mild contractions somewhere around 2 to 2:30 minutes. The next couple of holds are easy and I can hold of all contractions. The 6th hold I start contracting slightly in the end but I can usually still hold them of. The 7th and 8th hold I have contractions for the last one and a half minute, but I don't have to work real hard to hold on. I often can stretch the last hold to at least around 4 minutes.

Does this mean I have to make the tables harder by prolonging the breathhold time and up the CO2 tolerance or turn them down a bit to concentrate more on the easy phase?

PS: My current PB is 4:37, but that was a while ago. Probably should do a max session soon to see where I'm at currently.

[bite ya]

Hi Arjen,
First question "are you supposed to have contractions during Co2 tables"
Anwser - Yes, that's what the tables are for, to build your tolerance levels up.

Your times vs. your contractions and journey through the table are very simlar to mine although my max hold time is about a minute more than yours. I think this means that my tolerance is higher.

You stated that on your last hold at a strech you can hold for 4mins? yet you are doing 3min holds during your tables? Co2 tables require you to keep the hold times the same and decrease the rest time.

I leant some great tips from Trux and IlDiver on these forums (great guy's!!) and now when i do my tables (as i was finding them easy) i now start with 1min rest and straight into a 3min hold, then down to 45secs and onto another 3min hold. Then i repeat the 15sec rest for a few reps. This has made the whole tables thing a lot harder for me.

You need to try another max attempt and then work out your hold time for your tables (around 60% of your P.B). Don't forget your o2 tables too!

When you train and use tables make sure you are not purging, hyperventilating etc as this totally goes against what you are trying to achieve and you will just be cheating yourself. Stay true to yourself and your abillities and you will progress quickly.

Hope this helps? I'm sure the other guy's will come in and help me out here or correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks and dive safe..

[TheDude]

CO2 tables are supposed to teach you how to suffer and how to handle it... So in my opinion the more contractions you get, the better the effect will be. You should not do any breath-up or try to get the CO2 out during recovery time, just breath normally and enjoy the contractions ...

How to hold contractions back for as long as possible with relaxation etc should be trained in max attempts or other techniques.

[trux]

Yes, CO2 tables with a 3 minutes or longer BH become simply too long and too boring, so as bite_ya wrote, what we do in our club in such case is that we start with 1 minute recovery, going down to 15 s recovery with 15 s decrements each round, and then repeating the 15 s rounds for at least 5 or 6 times. As TheDude wrote, no "breath-up", no purges, just plain flat breathing during the recovery.

Another good hypercapnic alternative exercise is doing single recovery breath series - repeat breath hold of the same length for 10 (or more) minutes with only single exhale and inhale between the breath-holds. I'd suggest starting with a BH of about 30% of your PB. If it is too easy, try more. You should try keeping all the BH's during the series equally long. Well, you can add some seconds if you feel you have sufficient reserve, but not cutting the BH shorter than the one in the previous round.

These and other similar exercise can be found in the online Apnea Training Manager that allows you also interactive dry or wet training with the help of the PC or a portable computer, or printing out the tables for bringing them with you to the pool.

[Silentspear]

Is it good to do breath-hold exercises while your running? I get contractions within like 10 seconds.

[chrismar]

Originally Posted by trux

Another good hypercapnic alternative exercise is doing single recovery breath series - repeat breath hold of the same length for 10 (or more) minutes with only single exhale and inhale between the breath-holds. I'd suggest starting with a BH of about 30% of your PB. If it is too easy, try more. You should try keeping all the BH's during the series equally long. Well, you can add some seconds if you feel you have sufficient reserve, but not cutting the BH shorter than the one in the previous round.

Ah yes, I'm familiar with this pain! I generally try for ten repetitions of the same hold length and a single breath in between. It does cause massive CO2 headaches, for me at least.

As for the contractions, these are where I try to block contractions with my mind. On a good day, I'll go through a whole session without any and a bad day is five or fewer.

[trux]

Originally Posted by Silentspear

Is it good to do breath-hold exercises while your running? I get contractions within like 10 seconds.

The probability you fall, stumble upon something, loss motor control, or blackout is rather high, so either you play it quite safe with quite short and only hypercapnic exercises (where the training effect is then questionable), or you risk injury. Apnea walking on a soft surface (sand, grass) is a little safer. Apnea static bicycle exercises with a harness preventing you from falling is probably even better.

[rbsub]

If you don't have enough time for your tables or if it is too boring, try to do it with empty lungs - perhaps with negative packings, too.

That helps me a lot and you can get used to that empty-lung-feeling which you get during you dives.

[bite ya]

I used to apnea run but it is sooo hard only managed about 6-10secs! Now i apnea walk which i find much more civilised and plus i dont have to wear a crash helmet in case of B.O!!

As for the empty lung and negative packing, i find this to help a great deal and use them as a warm up before a max attempt. I find them to kick the dive reflex in really quickly when training and if time is an issue i use them as an extreme Co2 table.

All good stuff!

[Whopperhead]

Originally Posted by Silentspear

Is it good to do breath-hold exercises while your running? I get contractions within like 10 seconds.

Ok- if you're wearing a Helmet and Body Gear- Cause you will more than likely crash. Never do it while cooking dinner either- or have sharp objects in your hands. Or flying a plane.

[apneaboy]

I did it mowing the lawn once, but half way through i had a preminition and decided it would take someone too long to clean up my body parts if i fell in front of the lawn mower so stopped.

If it doesn't hurt your doing it wrong, don't cheat and purge the CO2 between holds. It will make the max attempts easier in the long run .......... or so i read

[rbsub]

Another idea is to do your tables during ironing. Start with small pieces of clothes and enhance yourself until you can iron a whole shirt. Don't forget to reduce the recovery breaks.

Your wife will be very happy with you and she will tell you that you should do your training more often.

[trux]

This method has the additional advantage that if you black out, and burn the clothes or set the house on fire, you will likely never have to iron anymore

[bite ya]

Guy's
this thread should be on the jokes heading or in the beach bar!....it's making me laugh so much.

Another good trick is to use a straw, not to drink out of!! I use one to breath through everday whilst i'm at work and find it works the lungs a treat (everyone in the office thinks i'm a bit strange, but then again i am!!)

[trux]

Originally Posted by bite ya

Another good trick is to use a straw, not to drink out of!! I use one to breath through everday whilst i'm at work and find it works the lungs a treat (everyone in the office thinks i'm a bit strange, but then again i am!!)

Well, another safety tip: if you are using a straw, make sure you attach it to a thread around your neck, so that you can pull it out once you inhale it after a bigger urge to breath