Apnea promotes genius (extreme intellectual ability)?

[Ben Gowland]

This ThinkFast programme sounds like fun. I must look out for it. I quite enjoy doing IQ tests, but it sounds like this programme may be superior.

Something that made me smile in all this talk of good/bad written English - a certain other freedive website has a guestbook, where many of the postings are riddled with bad spelling, grammar and syntax. So this website must be a more cerebral place - hence why we are attracted back to it?

[fpernett]

Hi all,
This thread allways called my attention because I have the same thougths. But on this days I have been reading about Intermittent hypoxia. On my search I found this article:"Physiological and pathophysiological responses to intermittent hypoxia" in the Journal of Applied Physiology 2001(90):1593
It's mainly about the adaptative changes that occur in response to high altitude. "Is well known that we adapt to counter the chronic effects of hypoxia in ways highly beneficial for maximizing the efficient use of oxygen for metabolic demand".
The author agree that the functional benefits of repetitive hypoxia for both its therapeutic value in patients and performance in athletes, but the syndromes of sleep obstructive apnea and the apnea of prematurity suggests that may be long-term adverse consecuences of chronic cyclical hypoxia, and that ultimately the chronicity of intermittent hypoxia may determine wheter the response crosses the threshold from having protective value to pathology.
The beneficial effects are many:

• Protection in surviving lethal hypoxia
• Improve exercise performance and exercise time
• Enhanced expression of stress proteins and antioxidants systems
• Antiarrhytmic efect in acute myocardial ischemia
• Prevent atherosclerosis
• Stimulus for erythropoietin production
• Increase in the hypoxic ventilatory response

But chronic inttermitent hypoxia have some bad effects:

• Increase the blood pressure response to hypoxia
• Increases right ventricular heart mass
• neurocognitive deficits
• Production of reactive free radicals (peroxynitrate) that induce brain damage

The "bad" effects are derived from pathological situations of inttermitent hypoxia, like Obstructive Sleep Apnea where the desaturation at sleep is severe (50%), but she mention an study in climbers at high altitude that exhibit alterations in neuropsychological and cognitive functions that can persist after long periods of time after they return to sea level. And there are studies where brief exposure to hypoxia alter learning in animal models (monkeys).
My personal view is that the grade of desaturation and the time can have a "bad" effect, and that can be the difference between beneficial and pathological effects.
What do you think?

[TMcKee]

I am up to 3:06 in static apnea. A great accomplishment for me, anyway. I have a friend who does not believe that the brain can last longer than 4 minutes without oxygen. He firmly believes that cellular death starts to occur in this time. I have tried to reason with him, saying "its like saying that each person can only do 20 pushups..or each man can run only 2 miles.." He is an informed health nut, and I have no proof to back me up. Any good reading on this?

[fpernett]

Well, you can tell your "health nut" that apnea is not the same as anoxia (total absence of oxygen); apnea means stop breathing but just externally the real respiration is in our cells (the mitochondria) and during apnea our cell respiration is still working.
Tell him that a lot of people is beyond 4 minutes of apnea (By the way that 4 minutes are not the limit of anoxia, there are reports of people that have been underwater, in cold waters, for 17 minutes and after a proper reanimation don't get brain damage), like Stepanek (8:06), Nitsch (8:11), Fattah, Maier and close to me, my brother (7:42) and no one have evidence of brain damage, in fact some are very inteligent persons. The "trick" is to use the low amount of oxygen, that means that the apneist have to low down his metabolism and use just the necessary amount of oxygen to keep his cells alive. The yogis also practice apnea(not for competition, of course) without evidence of brain damage. To simplificate, when you are doing apnea your cell are still breathing and taking oxygen from all the other sources different from the one that comes from the lungs.
My question in the previous reply are what are the long term consecuences of hypoxia.
Hope you can take out your friend from his misconceptions

[thin_air]

good explaination fpernett
do you mind if i try another way>?

TMcKee, explain it to your friend like this...

my lung capacity (what i exhale, none of that residual stuff- for the simple reason that i havent figured it out)is 4.5 liters
now, for me a good hold (static) is 4:30 - 4:45 (i can do longer, but i risk samba)
next, with the packing that i do for my static my lung volume is 5L (plus residual)

so, i have 5L of air available for 4:30 thats a breathing rate of 1.11Liters per minute

just explain it like that, he might understand, he might not

ps. the 4 minute rule only starts after you black out...(ie. when there is not enough O2 to remain concious

[efattah]

Ask your friend the following question:

- At what SaO2 level do you think that brain damage begins?
- (he will answer xx)

Then ask,
- In an good breath-holder, how long do you think they would have to hold their breath to reach that SaO2 xx (whatever number he said)
(he will answer xx minutes)

Then reply,
- Did you know that in fact studies have been done, and it actually takes XX minutes to reach that saturation?

Where in your head, you use the following table
Time SaO2
0 min = 98%
1 min = 98%
2 min = 98%
3 min = 97%
4 min = 95%
5 min = 82%
6 min = 73%
7 min = 50%
8 min = 25%

(just find your friend's response to the SaO2 and use the table -- he should reply about 80% because most doctors get worried around SaO2 = 80%)

These are true numbers.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[thin_air]

eric,
from these numbers, can we draw a conclusion that most people should be able to hold their breath for 2-3 min. since the SaO2 only changes by 1% (this is assuming that they keep themselves nice and relaxed)
is it also reasonable to assume that getting past 3:30 - 4 minutes is hard because past that time the SaO2 drops dramatically

thanks,

[Jon]

I had to go to an inservice today about brain research and education put on by Eric Jensen.

During one of the breaks I got to go up and talk to him about this topic. To my pleasent surprise he had actually heard about it and didn't think that I was a total nut case.

He cited Win Wenger's and Dr. Yashiro's work in the area. He also stated that two of his freinds swore by it. I guess that one had even done research into hyperbaric oxygen treatments and its effect on the brain.

He said that he liked to surf to clear his head and thought that the extra 02 that your body pumps through exercise had many positive effects on the brain.

The whole day turned out to be far more interesting that I had first invisioned.

THe people that I work with are always amazed at what topics I can relate back to diving.

Jon

[loopy]

Eric,

Do you by any chance have similar figures showing oxygen saturation changing over an exhale static, or a negative?

[aydin]

Hello to everyone,by activating this thread is there any new study about the hazards of apnea at last years.
A friend of mine who is a really serious spearfisher,have heard about an research on Italian spearfishers or freedivers,that there is a risk at the elderly ages a neurologic disorder that goes with syncopes(Maybe Alzheimer??). Did anyone in the forum heard anything about this study??

[shoutatthesky]

It is well known in both aquatic animals and humans that both epinephrine and norepinephrine are massively elevated after extreme dives & breath-holds. Among other things, they are secreted by the adrenals to help you stay conscious and keep you alive when you need it most; yet another reason to avoid sweets to keep your adrenals healthy...

However, I didn't know that norepinephrine affected libido...


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

I know I certainly feel a lot calmer, more focused, and more able to think after a training session. Eric, Can you tell us how reducing intake of sweets keeps your adrenals healthy. Also can you direct me to some good info on diet for freediving?

[joe123321]

Ive noticed my short term memory has declined. Recently ive started doint dynamics about 2 times a week. and now I tell myself to go do something in five minutes and I completely forget. Am I just paranoid or are my brain cells dying?

[iparcell]

I just found a new site that also explains how holding your breath increases your intelligence
heres the link Two GUARANTEED Ways To Profoundly Increase Your Intelligence