Restrictions on equipment (lenses, goggles, noseclips)?

[CEngelbrecht]

Following the 'AIDA rules' thread, I'm seeking the majority opinion on wheather AIDA should keep or remove the restrictions on equipment for deep diving competitions, meaning the disallowance of in particular nose clips, fluid goggles and subaquatic contact lenses in the competition disciplines constant weight, constant weight without fins & free immersion.

This one is open for debate.

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen

[efattah]

I would have structured the poll differently.

Nose clips, contact lenses and fluid goggles are all 'off-the-rack' equipment, non-custom. Pipe masks and silicone plugged masks are custom.

The paradisia nose clip is owned by almost every competition diver, and yet it is not allowed, so the current rule doesn't really speak about 'off-the-rack' or not, since paradisia clips are definitely 'off-the-rack' and still not allowed. The simplest, lowest cost config with off-the-rack equipment would be a paradisia nose clip with no goggles of any kind.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[CEngelbrecht]

Euhhh...I see your point. Hopefully people know what I mean...

[Kars]

I think AIDA should stick for a while to the current rules because it emphesizes on the diving technic, instead of material technic.

I think the sport needs a broad accesebility, and if any beginner whould not stand a chance deu to the fact that he could not affort liquid gogles that would not be nice. Sure I like technological improvements but in this 'fase' we should wait a bit longer for allowing al these kinky stuff. And I also like the added experience and safety of some years of use, before everyone buys this amazing new -exemple- 'supermask'. The other thing is that to an outsider we are already "superhuman", adding al these fancy things may alienize them more, or they might think they can do it as easy as us just by buying our special equipment?

Lenses and fluid gogles are a real improvement that whould create a have and no-have crouwd, I rather stick to current rules.

Kars

[efattah]

Why not allow nose clip with no mask? Even if fluid goggles and contact lenses are not allowed, why not allow a nose clip with no mask?


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[efattah]

I would also like to add that $650 bifins, $650 monofins, and $300 sharkskin suits are currently allowed in AIDA competitions, and these items give an unfair advantage over divers who cannot afford them. In fact, you can use a $3000 custom monofin if you want to. So one cannot argue that $295 goggles or $400 contact lenses are too expensive.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[Kars]

A nose clip in static is no problem to me.
In the depth displines using only a noseclip? Well I think it's bad for the safety.
Dynamic? No problem I think.

So in a pool using (only) noseclip = ok.
Not in depth I say.


But that's my opinion.

BTW I've tried a paradisa a few times, but I don't like them. So I stick to my cressi Minima.

Quick response mr Fattah, I'm honoured
*I now turn into bed, 02:58 over here*

Kars

[Kars]

About these super expensive mono's and stuff, sure they add a few meters in dynamic to the pro, but not as much to the novice, A novice who would train a bit more would easily outswim the money.
But I like the fact that many are not (yet) participating in this material frenzy. I think it whould be better if there are certain boundries. These boundries can be shifted in time, but I think the proposed equipment is not settled/common enough for this year. I like diving technique to be on the upperside, instead of the budget or engineer at the drawing board, especially in competitions.

// sorry for all the editing, I'm a bit dyslectic, and English is not my native speech, as you would have quessed right now

[Bill]

I like the idea of using a noseclip for depth but, maybe I'm just wishing for the old days when I didn't have to hold my nose to make a dive. Last week I had a chance to use Wal's version of a pipe mask and that could be the best of all worlds. Very low cost.
I have another problem. All masks leak on my face unless I use a small plug for the indentation on my forehead. How much water is allowed in competition? Plastic surgery is out of the question.
Aloha
Bill

[efattah]

Kars wrote:
> but I think the proposed equipment is not settled/common enough for this year

That is the problem!!!! If the equipment is NOT ALLOWED, then it will never become 'SETTLED/COMMON.' If fluid goggles and contact lenses were ALLOWED in competitions, there would be such high demand that they would cost $125 per pair, and everyone would see them everywhere. The reason fluid goggles cost $295 is BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED. I could sell them for $125 if they were allowed.

So, unless they are allowed, they will never become 'settled/common/cheap' enough to be allowed!


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[Erik]

Death to the Luddites.
Erik Y.

[Walrus]

I agree,
I think the rules are stupid and outdated. At the very least they should allow the use of noseclips in depth competition. It's much easier to get a good monofin style happening when you can use both arms overhead. Not to mention better streamlining with mono or bi-fins. If they ever want to have no-fins comp then they are a must !

If it comes down to keeping things equal as far as cost, then there are alternatives to lenses and fluid goggles. Pipe masks are easy to build and very cheap. They do take a bit of practise to use. I recently have been playing around with something similar to a pipemask, and it works well, even better vision then a normal pipemask, and almost no volume, maybe 1/10th of a normal mask ?!
Cost me less then $15 in materials, and about 1/2 hour to put together......
When I get some pics I will put it up on this site.


P.S I don't know if the paradisia nose clip is still possible to get. Howard doesn't stock them, and the contacts on the website are dead, don't know if anyone sells them anywhere ?

Cheers,
Wal

[Kars]

Originally posted by efattah
Kars wrote:
> but I think the proposed equipment is not settled/common enough for this year

That is the problem!!!! If the equipment is NOT ALLOWED, then it will never become 'SETTLED/COMMON.' If fluid goggles and contact lenses were ALLOWED in competitions, there would be such high demand that they would cost $125 per pair, and everyone would see them everywhere. The reason fluid goggles cost $295 is BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED. I could sell them for $125 if they were allowed.

So, unless they are allowed, they will never become 'settled/common/cheap' enough to be allowed!


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

I think first it should be a bit more common, these liquid goggles should be promoted more, sent exemple pairs to national teams, that should help A LOT. Because people like to try before they buy, same as a regular mask in a shop. Futermore I really hope that the price comes down, because ~$ 300 for a mask is still a lot money, even there is a lot researchmoney in them. (maybe make a complete package, including nosclip?)

Another bonus of this promotion whould be that the athletes themselves would begin to ask for a change of rules, and the local AIDA whould put this question forward to AIDA international.

I sort of understand that Eric is owner/participant of liquidvision?

And yes I agree to Walrus that a noseclip would help a lot.
Do you have a link to an exemple of a pipemask? I do not have a clue wat they look like.

Anyway I too think that liquid goggles are the future, it's just a question of time.

Thanks.

Kars

*to Erik, what are Luddites?, is that short for werd stuff?*

[efattah]

So far I have spent about $20,000+ developing the goggles, and even if you count every sale ever made, I'm still at least at $10,000 in debt. At this point I don't think I'm ever going to make a profit, so I have little or no interest in spending more money out of my own pocket to send free pairs, do promotions, etc... Obviously it was a mistake to even spend a penny. I should have just made myself a pair and then abandoned the project. I should have realized with the AIDA rules there was no point in even beginning a business to make special freediving gear. Also, as long as the rules remain the way they are, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that no one else try to start a business making specialized freediving gear. You will just lose money.




Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[Kars]

I'm a bit sorry to hear that your still in the negatives,

But if there are about 10.000 freedivers around the world, and a quater wants to buy your -outstanding- invention, I quess that would cover the cost. I don't know how long they are on the market? I've heart of them on our local AIDA-Netherlands forum in september... Though I'm a very Fomun visiter, beware because I just discoverd this one

I recon that fluit goggles are not for competitions only but also very nice to recreational dives too.
I expect that if one of the dutch get a pair, the others wil follow in time. I've just heared someone saying they were too expensive, equalising was also not a problem with his minima and he also said they were forbidden in competitions.

On the other hand as we take a look at the results of the future, there would not be much difference, as Martin Stephanic showed in cyprus with a normal mask you can still do a WR
So the unfairnes could turn out to be only of very little influince. Shallow divers would add some meteres, as do the pro's. It would still come down to equilizing techique.
The only thing still left would be that the safeties should stay longer at greater depths

So as you see ppl I've come around

Can I change my vote?

//edit: Just erased a name, and rewrite the sentice, preserving the opinion, which may be a common opinion.