The apnea academy in cuba

[neshamah]

Hi I just read the article about the opening of the academy in cuba...I would like to have more information about this-- why Deborah andollo don't take part of this forum so she can explain more to us in his own word what is going on with the freediving in cuba....es mi deseo tener mas informacion sobre todo lo que esta pasando con la apnea en cuba -- I think there is no problem with the ingles she can post this in espanol o en frances somebody can translate for her

saludos

[got lungs?]

sounds like a good school. it's a shame they put it in Cuba. you won't see me headed there anytime soon. i'd rather eat horse shit than spend a penny supporting their wonderful leader Castro. i don't think i'm alone on this one.

[CEngelbrecht]

What's wrong with Cuba? I haven't been there myself, but the people I know that has gone there on vacation speak highly of the country, the people and the diving there.

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen

[cebaztian]

Lovely country and lovely people. Origin of freedivers like Rudi Castineyra and Pippin. Also a country with high education, good wellfare (compared to most other caribean countries)
But not much to buy in the shops and a lack of freedom of speach. The first is due to USA trade boycot the second due to Castro.
Go there spend your money amongst the people. You will have a lovely time.

Sebastian/Sweden (been there)

So now discuss the apnea academy and dont get political. If a nasty leader stops you from visiting a country I have a few other suggestions of countries not to visit - when thinking of it, I have not - this is a forum for freediving!

[got lungs?]

while i agree on not turning this into a political thread, i feel it's impossible to discuss the apnea academy without addressing the political isssues. it's kind of important to know what real Cuba is all about ( not just the tourist hot spots) if i am going to visit a country i would like to know some background first.

CEngelbrecht : Don't get me wrong, cuba is one of the best dive locations in the world. But as far as what your friends experienced, of course they spoke highly of their visit, they were tourists and were only able to see a VERY small part of cuba. they saw what Castro wanted them to see. they heard what castro wanted them to hear. i'd bet the cubans your friends interacted didn't tell them that they could be killed if they dare speak against Castro. or that people are willing to risk life and limb in a raft just to get to the land of the free.

cebaztian: all i can say is it's propaganda at its best. Castro continues to do what he has done for decades. leading people such as yourself to believe he takes such good care of his people. High education: think again, for the avg cuban you are working by the time you are 12 years old. and for girls, i guess you could call prostitution work also. good wellfare: if you call wiping your ass with your hand because you cannot afford toilet paper, or eating rice and bread to be good wellfare, than i must be richest man on the planet compared to them. spend your money amongst the people: sorry but you are doing nothing but supporting castro and his regime. Castro's govt runs everything!

overall, i speak strongly on this topic because it affects me every day. being of Cuban heritage and living in Miami, Fl. U.S. we deal with the reality of what Castro has done to so many people and how he has changed a country that was once a meca of the carribean. i just hope some of you look beyond the "glamour" that Castro portrays and realize how truly horrific it is for the average Cuban under castros regime. and by going there and supporting castro, you are saying it is OK for the people to live the way they live.

forrest

[got lungs?]

by the way if i ever post a thread considering visiting a country led by a nasty leader, let me know because i would most definitely not support them in any way.

[Rolando]

Originally posted by got lungs?
sounds like a good school. it's a shame they put it in Cuba. you won't see me headed there anytime soon. i'd rather eat horse shit than spend a penny supporting their wonderful leader Castro. i don't think i'm alone on this one.

No you are not alone! Don't know how people can visit a country where the people are oppressed, jailed because of their beliefs, and limited to activities/sites that tourists can attend. If Cuba was so great, why would so many risk their lives to get out? I don't blame the ones that don't understand. They can contact me if they want a "real" education on the hardships and injustices that have gone on in the island for over 40 years. This is not a political forum, but with many Cuban exiles as members, we can not look away and simple ignore such ignorance.

Quite frankly neshamah, who gives a hoot what's happening on the island in relation to freediving. There are much more areas of concern than this. Just ask Osvaldo Paya and all the other dissendents that got thrown in jail for signing a petition to express themselves...Unbelivable!

"F" Castro!

[Roan]

To My Cuban-American Countrymen,

We're glad you're here (in America). It's been my observation that Cuban immigrants have been the most industrius, innovative, freedom loving, hard-working and entreprenurial groups to have ever landed on our shores. America and Florida in particular is a better place because you are here.

I have to say that over the years it has often seemed to me that your perhaps well founded hatred of Castro has clouded your memory of pre-1959 living conditions for the vast majority of Cubans. Yes, many of your families wrongfully lost homes and businesses. But pre-Castro Cuba was an oligarchy in which, again, the vast majority of the people lived in the most abject, brutal poverty ever documented in the 20th century. The plantation owners lived well and were free, yes; but they were not exactly benevolent overseers of the people who were living literally as modern day slaves. Their lives were brutal and short lived; their injuries and illnesses went untreated. Today all Cubans have universal health care. Is it great health care? Probably not. But it is much more than the oligarchs would have ever voluntarily provided out of the "goodness" of their hearts.

Given historical currents in the world at the time, and the social conditions in Cuba a communist takeover there was inevitable. Castro cared about the unwashed masses; he did'nt care about the 2% who controlled 98% of the land and wealth. The Cuban and American capitalists who owned Cuba had it "good." Too good. You lost; get over it. Cut the old guy some slack. He's got one foot in the grave; let him retire or die with the dignity he deserves. You guys will have plenty of oppurtunity to re-build your casinos and hotels after he's gone. My opinion is the more people who visit now, the better (especially if it's to freedive)!

Sincerely,
Roan

[Rolando]

Roan,

I don't have the time nor the energy to dissect each and every one of your statements. You are not correct in all that you've stated. My family were all peasants prior to the revolution and as most on the island realize that Cuba is by far a worse country after the revolution. Also, it's very easy for you to state to "cut the old guy some slack". You did not have a brother, uncle, father, or loved one put to a firing squad!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you cut us some slack and realize that perhaps we know more about the truths concerning Cuba today and yesterday. We speak to Cubans here, on the island, and recently arrived on a daily basis, much more than someone on the "left" coast would have access to. This is not the proper forum for this discussion and for that I apoligize to the mentors. You can sugar coat things all you want, but people are dying daily. They are dying on the island, in its jails, across the straits, and even in other countries because of the cancer on the island. Did you actually live in Cuba prior to 1959? If not, and most of your information is from so-called "books" or "articles". Then may I suggest an alternative source of data???????

[neshamah]

habana- malecon

[CEngelbrecht]

I don't think any of us can solve this one, people already have their opinions lined out and no objective voice can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt who is right or wrong about the state of Cuba and present Cuban life. All of us can be subjects of propaganda without knowing anything for sure (which includes US low-propaganda, mind you).

However, my best guess is that the story of Cuba and Castro is not as square as the traditional one about dictators. Fidel and Saddam are not two alike. Castro I actually think is very much a humanistic idealist doing what he thinks is best for Cuba and Cubans (as upposed to a-hole Batista, whom he originally removed from palace). Fidel is not this monster like Saddam, basically he has meant well from the very beginning (like most socialists do).
That I disagree with Castro's opinion that idealism can be carried through with dictation, is another matter. I fear for Cuba the day Castro dies. I think Castro is very much like Lenin, and I fear for a Cuban Stalin.
To point out: I don't believe in dictation, no matter what the situation or the idealistic approach. There's no safety net. All I ask is a more round perspective on things when we read about a freediving academy in Cuba.

If you guys get the chance to see 'Commandante' by Oliver Stone, do that. It'll broaden the horizon, and it's not really pro-Castro or pro-communistic (or it weren't for me). Otherwise, read as much stuff about Cuba as possible, and think for your bloody selves.

This one can't get back on track now. Let's just finish it, maybe something constructive will come out of it.

Go on. Give me bad karma, I don't care. I stated my mind without dishonesty. I don't suck up to anyone, I don't demand that you agree with me.

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen

[Antonio Montana]

Roan, you are an ignorant individual. You and others who have never set a foot on the Island or yet, have relatives living a nightmare under that tyrant, are clueless of what you say.

Please, before you become the authority on Cuban history, I recommend you begin drinking guarapo, listening to Celia Cruz, roasting a whole pig in a chinese box and grow some foreskin.

Other than that, put your opinions in your back pockets and leave them there.

[Roan]

You Cuban guys are proving my point. Your hatred of Castro prevents you from being logical or even civil about issues like this. So only a Cuban can know the "truth" about Cuban history? Only an (anti-Castro) Cuban can post an opinion on this public forum about Cuba (without being insulted in a low class manner)? I'll grant you that you know better than most of us about daily life in Cuba today. But world history is just that: it's there for anyone to seek out and understand. The "truth" about world (or Cuban) history is not owned by Cuban refugees.

I'll admit I may have got a bit flippant at the end of my post. And for that my apologies go out to everyone on the forum who is interested only in freediving and to everyone like Rolando who has lost loved ones to political murder. But I stand by what I hope was my main point: the unusually poor and brutal living conditions of the vast majority of Cubans before Castro aroused his people to revolution are fact. He did'nt just appear for no reason from out of a tropical utopia. No one likes communist dictatorships or political repression, torture and murder. But because American governments later committed crimes against it's populace (slavery, bigotry, etc.), it does not follow that the conditions that led to the American Revolution were not real or valid.

Way to elevate the dialougue with gutter level insults "Antonio Montana." Nice move. Was that you who sent me the unsigned bad karma, too? Here's a dollar... go buy yourself some class. You guys lash out and insult people who don't share your exact hatred of Fidel. I don't accept that. Take your face out of that pile of cocaine because here's a little clue for you: You've had 44 years of freedom and financial prosperity here as a community; if all you Miami Cubans hate the guy so much why have'nt you gotten off your collective AASSSSES and overthrown or assasinated the guy?!?!

[got lungs?]

when i was 13 years old i had a great history teacher and the very first thing he explained to us before we opened our new world history book was this.

History is written by an individual. it is " his story", one's recolection may be completely different than anothers. and with that, we tackled world history, keeping in mind that not all that we read was set in stone or the absolute truth.

with that said, "cubans" here, feel the way we do because we have not learned from these "history" books, rather, we have learned first hand from family that was lucky enough to get out and from some that are still there. i understand that some of the posts come off as very elevated, but keep in mind how you would feel in our shoes. while some may express views differently, we all feel the same hatred towards Castro.

as far as karma ratings are concerned, who the hell cares. we are here to post our views and we should all respect them. afterall, everyone knows about real life karma, if your'e bad in this life you'll be reincarnated as a bug. or better yet a fish to get speared by a fellow spearoo.

forrest

[rigdvr]

Originally posted by Roan
Way to elevate the dialougue with gutter level insults "Antonio Montana." Nice move. Was that you who sent me the unsigned bad karma, too? Here's a dollar... go buy yourself some class. You guys lash out and insult people who don't share your exact hatred of Fidel. I don't accept that. Take your face out of that pile of cocaine because here's a little clue for you: You've had 44 years of freedom and financial prosperity here as a community; if all you Miami Cubans hate the guy so much why have'nt you gotten off your collective AASSSSES and overthrown or assasinated the guy?!?! [/b]

Well I certainly signed the negative karma I lobbed your way for that statement. You pick on someone for slamming you and then turn around and flame them... These people lived the experience, so on what grounds are your beliefs based? A dictator is a dictator is a dictator, so I ask what is the difference between Saddam and Fidel? They both kill anyone who opposses them. They both desired to be the only voice of a people. Why dont you go live there for a while if you think it's not that bad?