|
|||||||
| Notices | |
| General Freediving General discussion on Freediving. |
 |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools |
|
#1
December 21st, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
Hi DB Crew,
Maybe I missed the post but there doesn't seem to have been much discussion on the new AIDA regulations for 2005 as described through the recent AIDA voting. Within the noseclip and fluid goggles thread by Yasemin, Peter P posted the link to the following info. ------------- Dear Delegates, Following are the detailled results of the votations concerning AIDA Regulations 2005 : SUBJECT TO VOTE #1 «I think that the recognition of World Record during competition should be given to :» C. The Judges at location, directely after the control of the official videotapes A. 1 voice B. 10 voices C. 18 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #2 «I think that the recognition of World Record during record’s attempt should be given to :» C. The Judges at location, directely after the review of the official videotapes A. 1 voice B. 11 voices C. 17 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #3 «I think the ‘’AIDA World Championship by Teams’’ should officially take in consideration for its results the following disciplines :» B. Static Apnea + Constant Weight + Dynamic Apnea with Fins (proposed situation) A. 6 voices B. 23 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #4 «Do you think AIDA should accept to recognize performances made with Black-Out (BO) during competitions ?» C. No A. no voice B. no voice C. 28 voices Didn’t vote : 11 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #5 «Do you think AIDA should accept to recognize performances made with Black-Out (BO) during record attempts ?» C. No A. no voice B. no voice C. 29 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #6 «Do you think AIDA should accept to recognize performances made with Loss of Motor Control (LMC) during competitions ?» B. Yes, but only with special conditions (to be decided, see vote below) A. no voice B. 15 voices C. 14 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #7 «Do you think AIDA should accept to recognize performances made with Loss of Motor Control (LMC) during record attempts ?» B. Yes, but only with special conditions (to be decided, see vote below) A. no voice B. 15 voices C. 14 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #8 «In case of decision «B» (Yes, but only with special conditions) voted on topic #4, and/or #5, and/or #6, and/or #7, what should be the ‘special conditions’ in your opinion ?» B. To request the athlete to keep his airways out of the water during a time to be determinated (technical criterias) C. To request the athlete to make successfully a specific «surfacing protocol» to be determinated (technical criterias) F. Addition of the propositions B+C A. 2 voices B. 3 voices C. 1 voice D. 1 voice E. no voice F. 10 voices G. 2 voices Didn’t vote : 20 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #9 «For Constant Weight and Constant Weight without Fins disciplines during competitions, do you think the athlete should be allowed to catch/grab/secure the rope, without pulling :» A. During all the dive A. 14 voices B. 13 voices C. no voice Didn’t vote : 12 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #10 «For Constant Weight and Constant Weight without Fins disciplines during the record attempt, do you think the athlete should be allowed to catch/grab/secure the rope, without pulling :» A. During all the dive A. 14 voices B. 13 voices C. no voice Didn’t vote = 12 TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #11 «For Constant Weight and Constant Weight without Fins disciplines during competitions, do you think the athlete should be allowed to pull himself on the rope :» D. Only at the bottom of the performance, one pulling down allowed to reach the depth and one pulling up allowed to start the ascent A. 12 voices B. no voice C. 3 voices D. 13 voices E. 1 voice Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #12 «For Constant Weight and Constant Weight without Fins disciplines during the record attempt, do you think the athlete should be allowed to pull himself on the rope :» D. Only at the bottom of the performance, one pulling down allowed to reach the depth and one pulling up allowed to start the ascent A. 11 voices B. no voice C. 3 voices D. 14 voices E. 1 voice Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #13 «Do you think nose-clips should be allowed during AIDA depth’s competitions ?» A. Yes A. 19 voices B. 10 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #14 «Do you think freediving lenses should be allowed during AIDA depth’s competitions ?» A. Yes A. 18 voices B. 10 voices Didn’t vote : 11 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #15 «Do you think goggles and ‘’fluid-goggles’’ should be allowed during AIDA depth’s competitions ?» A. Yes A. 19 voices B. 10 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #16 «Do you think volume reducers in the mask should be allowed during AIDA depth’s competitions ?» A. Yes A. 16 voices B. 12 voices Didn’t vote : 11 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #17 «Do you think diving without mask, or with water in the mask should be allowed during AIDA depth’s competitions ?» A. Yes A. 17 voices B. 10 voices Didn’t vote : 12 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #18 «Do you think wrist-belt, ankle-belt, neck-belt and any other kind of ballast should be allowed during AIDA depth’s competitions ?» B. Yes, but only with a safety ‘’quick-opening’’ system A. 3 voices B. 17 voices C. 9 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #19 «During Static Apnea competitions, do you think the Captain/Coach should be allowed to work as official safety freediver in the water ?» A. Yes A. 21 voices B. 8 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #20 «In case of votation’s results «Yes» for the subject #19, do you think that using the Captain/Coach as safety freediver in the water during static apnea competition should be :» B. Optional (organizers should also provide safety freedivers for athletes without captains/coaches) A. 4 voices B. 20 voices Didn’t vote : 15 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #21 «In case of votation’s results «Yes» for the subject #19, do you think that the Captain/Coach working as safety freediver in the water should be allowed to :» A. Touch the athlete only at the requested timing of touching-controls B. Touch the athlete freely during all the performance (intensive coaching) untill the airway emerge, but respecting the requested timing of touching-controls C. Touch the athlete freely during all the performance (intensive coaching) untill the airway emerge, and managing freely the touching-signals by himself, like during a record attempt (safety controls become the responsability of the Captain/Coach) A. 10 voices C. 10 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 voices Board’s member votations to make the difference with the equal vote : A. 4 voices B. 1 voice C. 5 voices Didn’t vote : 1 voice TOTAL = 11 voices [NB : The other possible «option» of doubled President’s voice would have given the same results] SUBJECT TO VOTE #22 «Should video footage be used in an official role in AIDA competitions and record ?» A. Yes A. 25 voices B. 4 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #23 «In case of votation’s results «Yes» for the subject #22, should video footage be required for ratification of records wheter in competition or during a record attempt (for world record and/or national record if announced) ?» A. Yes A. 27 voices Didn’t vote : 12 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #24 «In case of votation’s results «Yes» for the subject #22, should official video footage be required for ratification of competition performances ?» A. Yes A. 18 voices B. 10 voices Didn’t vote : 11 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #25 «In case of votation’s results «Yes» for the subject #23 and/or #24, should video footage be used :» C. For both record recognition and judging protests A. 9 voices B. 1 voice C. 19 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #26 «Do you think AIDA should continue to request anti-doping test for all successful world record performances, during both Record’s attempts and competitions ?» A. Yes A. 25 voices Didn’t vote : 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #28 «In case the results of the votations #26 is «YES», or the results of the votations #27 is «A» or «B», do you think AIDA should request anti-doping tests :» C. Only one anti-doping test for the same athlete after the end of the competition, or the end of the record attempt session (last day) A. 2 voices B. 5 voices C. 21 voices Didn’t vote : 11 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #29 «Do you think AIDA should continue to request anti-doping tests during International competitions (World Championships) ?» A. Yes A. 22 voices Didn’t vote = 10 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #30 «In case the results of the votations #29 is «YES», how many doping-tests should be requested per discipline ?» A. Only one for the winner A. 9 voices Didn’t vote : 13 voices TOTAL = 39 SUBJECT TO VOTE #31 «Do you think AIDA should continue to request anti-doping tests during National Open competitions (World Championships) ?» B. No B. 18 voices Didn’t vote = 12 voices TOTAL = 39 We will have now to correct, adapt, and finalize the new Regulations for 2005 as soon as possible, in order to start to work with these new regulations since January 1st, 2005. Best regards. Sébastien NAGEL, President of AIDA 
|
|
#2
December 21st, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
I guess no one has discussed it as the new rules have not been published yet - not really worth discussing until we know exactly what it means. Lots of interesting changes afoot though
Sam
__________________
"stand up, move away from your computer and go somewhere you have never been before... a cafe, a country, a lake or an ocean....." (stolen and twisted by me) www.saltfreedivers.com www.learntofreedive.com www.saltfreedoubledip.com
|
|
#3
December 21st, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
A fascinating change ..... Time will tell how it will work. I suspect that new rules will come in and some will cause hiccups and upsets - but that's all part of the democratic process....
Ben
|
|
#4
December 21st, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
but if you guys do want to start discussing - my main thought on this would be that I seriously hope the new rules do not allow any type of samba.
__________________
"stand up, move away from your computer and go somewhere you have never been before... a cafe, a country, a lake or an ocean....." (stolen and twisted by me) www.saltfreedivers.com www.learntofreedive.com www.saltfreedoubledip.com
|
|
#5
December 21st, 2004
|
|||
|
|||
I don't think the proposed changes are so much about allowing samba, as making judging samba less subjective. It would make more sense to have the diver complete a given protocol, such as removing the mask, handing a tag and showing an ok sign, staying concious and keeping the airways out of water for the following minute...Or something like that. This protocol I guess is yet to be defined, but should be something that requires a lot of concentration and coordination, so that someone with clear samba will not be able to complete it. Maybe something like inserting a tag in a small hole or something (of course this would be unfair to those competining in rough seas, but something like that).
Anyway, the focus should not be on "allowing samba" (and as I read the proposed changes, it is not), it should be in making judging it less subjective and therefore more fair. Allowing fluid goggles and nose clips is a welcome one as well as giving judges on location more power. I'm a bit surprised on the vote on grabbing the rope in CW. The simpler, the better, ie: don't touch it until the bottom. Now it will be very hard to judge someone. Was that a grab, a secure, a nudge or perhaps a pull? Last edited by jome; December 21st, 2004 at 13:48.
|
|
#6
December 21st, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
I actually read it that minor sambas may be allowed...
|
|
#7
December 21st, 2004
|
|||
|
|||
IMHO it all depends on what the "specific «surfacing protocol» to be determinated" will be. Does anybody know when there will be a decision about this and when the new rules will come into effect ?
Veronika
|
|
#8
December 21st, 2004
|
|||
|
|||
Ben, well, yes that's one way of looking at it. Another is "the definition of samba will be changed"
 It will be changed from "I think he was kind of shaky" to "he was unable to complete this task that requires fine muscle control" It's really kind of like switching from analog to digital...Less chance for erroneus interpretation.
__________________
Simo K
|
|
#9
December 21st, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
I hope the surface protocol demands a higher level of mental control than the old rule. As well less hypoxia ;-)
__________________
Peter SWE ______________________________
|
|
#10
December 21st, 2004
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
AKA the 'BLUE PAPER'.....! I guess the results of that came a year late, but better late than never! Thanks to everyone who signed it!
__________________
Eric Fattah Canada http://www.liquivision.ca "I encourage you to be free in the way you measure your success. I don’t claim to know what it will be like to be in your position, but I know that when you leave here, grades will be handed out differently. Your ability to gauge your success will largely depend on how you perceive it. You can shape it, set it up, feel it, and define it. Allow competition to turn inward. Do not depend on awards, money, or other validations." -Jonny Moseley
|
|
#11
December 21st, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
[quote=samdive]I guess no one has discussed it as the new rules have not been published yet - not really worth discussing until we know exactly what it means.
Sam, I don't understand your viewpoint. Based on the letter from Sébastien Nagal the rules come in to place on the 1st of Jan 2005....only about 1 week from now!! I for one am not about to bury my head in the sand and not talk about it until it appears on the AIDA site. I think these changes are the most significant changes to freediving regulation since the formation of AIDA. Additionally the amount of change since last years vote is substantial to say the least. Neck weights, pipemasks/fluid goggles, noseclips, onsite judge decisions, "controlled" sambas, coach assistance etc are BIG changes and most of them make me a very happy freediver!! Eric - I think the 'Blue Paper" effort has shown it's worth and the whole situation is a huge confidence boost to the democratic processes within AIDA...my heart felt respects to Sebastien Nagal! Andy
|
|
#12
December 22nd, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
I for one am very happy with the new rules when they come in place.
The general feeling to me is that AIDA has "clearly" listened to their members for the first time. Before this I could care less for AIDA as an organisation since it seemed to be only inventing and inforcing rules to irritate instead of help the athlete. (look at all the latest invalidated world record attempts for rediculous reasons or the neverending discussions on competitions if a certain look was a samba or not. ) If these new rules come in place i will be happy to belong to AIDA again, since i feel they start to understand us more in what level of ruling is 'really' needed and what belongs more in an accountants office ;-) Yeaaaah AIDA !
|
,|
#13
December 22nd, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Here is an example from another extreme sport: open water swimming: Hypothermia in open water swimming is the analogy to hypoxia in freediving. The official observers decide whether the swimmer needs any help. If he does, he is pulled out of the water before the finish line and the attempt is not valid. I appreciate the changes. cheers Gerald
__________________
For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Last edited by Gerald; December 22nd, 2004 at 16:29. Reason: Just another thought
|
|
#14
December 22nd, 2004
|
|||
|
|||
Let's remember that in previous AIDA votes (2003 and earlier), each 'question' on the vote was preceded by the 'strong recommendation of the president' in terms of which option to choose. For example, in previous votes about goggles, the president would first say he strongly recommends the mask rule for this-and-this reason, and then he would ask, 'which option do you choose?'
Each question had a strong recommendation right before it, and invariably the AIDA assembly would choose the same option as recommended by the president. It would sort of like this for the US president vote: Who do you vote for President? [The state of New York STRONGLY RECOMMENDS THAT YOU VOTE FOR NADER AND THERE COULD BE DIRE CONSEQUENCES IF YOU DON'T] A) Bush B) Kerry C) Nader Your Choice: _____ You can imagine how this would 'skew' the results in favour of Nader. This year, due to the effort of some CAFA board members, these 'strong recommendations' were removed from the AIDA voting process. Instead, there were simple questions such as 'should goggles be allowed, yes/no'. The result: Dramatically different votes on very old topics. Has the opinion of the AIDA assembly changed dramatically since last year, resulting in all the new changes? No. I doubt it. I think the opinions are much the same. What changed (primarily) between 2003 and 2004 was the objectivity of the voting process. Either way it is great news.
__________________
Eric Fattah Canada http://www.liquivision.ca "I encourage you to be free in the way you measure your success. I don’t claim to know what it will be like to be in your position, but I know that when you leave here, grades will be handed out differently. Your ability to gauge your success will largely depend on how you perceive it. You can shape it, set it up, feel it, and define it. Allow competition to turn inward. Do not depend on awards, money, or other validations." -Jonny Moseley
|
|
#15
December 22nd, 2004
|
||||
|
||||
A short comment on the new Samba rule:
I think that it's a huge step forward as essentially it's no longer about the subjective - ie. did a samba occur? It is now about safety and mental clarity, ie can you maintain the safety of your airway and can you perform a set task.
|
