guys, help a spearo out.....

[greendiver]

Hey there, I have recently picked up the spear fishing again and I enjoy it tremendously.
Somehow it is very hard to get a decent training program, I have read about dry and wet static training, static interval training, apnea running or walking, etc...askede people, searched etc.....
I thought you guys are the ones to ask...could somebody please help me out...I need a program on a weekly bases.
My goals are, obviously not the same....I want to improve my time, for security reasons and to be honest...I see no reason for me to stay under for longer then 2 minutes.
The might not sound a lot to you guys...read about guys staying under for 5 minutes more, I mean 2 minutes comfortably...and making more dives within a reasonable time.(5 minutes or so).
How many times a week should I practice dry static...how many times the apnea running..going to the gym? etc..
I am 38 years old, in good shape, work out a lot, have access to pools and the sea and time...
Please help this chaotic spearo..............

[JPPLAY]

Well I suggest you find a partner to train with when in the water. Myself I just did dry statics about every two days which increased my breathholds greatly.

How I do them is this:
Lay down
2-5 minutes of slow breathing getting your heart rate down.
Breath Hold
About 2:30 of breathing
2nd hold
About 2:30 of breathing
3rd hold
About 2:30 of breathing
4th hold

Each hold should be getting longer. I think you should be able to do a 3-4 minute breathhold after a month of doing that which should mean you should be able to do 2 minutes at a relaxed pace underwater.

[greendiver]

Thank you man...gonna give it a shot...
I thought so too, 4 minutes would be a good target time, can not do it yet.
Before you dive, I know hyperventilating is not a very good idea, how many deep breaths do you take before going under?
what about the apnea walk?

[JPPLAY]

I only tryed an apnea walk a few times as I am a competive swimmer and we train there getting used to working with very little oxygen in our systems and high levels of carbon dioxide.
What I use before going under is about two minutes of of slow breathing then a 10 second hold followed by a long exhale then another 10 second hold then finally 3 quick breaths followed by one full breath no packing.

[Merlin]

greendiver,

For "dry" trainning, I do apnea walking and static bike apnea, both have helped me a lot. Apnea walking is nice because its like doing a dynamic while you walk to your car. Count the paces that you can go while holding to see your improvement. Typically I ride the bike twice a week, one for a long fast paced cardio (12 miles) this will help lower your heart rate (good for statics), and the other I time ride an easier pace but I do apnea by holding 50% and breathing 50%. So for example if I hold 30sec, I then breath for 30sec, then on my last hold I go for as long as possible. This will help your CO2 tolerance, and get you used to the burning feeling. They key is to keep your rest to a minimum and your CO2 levels up.

You'll be doing 2min+ dives in no time! and buddy dive!

[greendiver]

Well guys, I have hit the 4 minutes, thanks for the advice!!
buy you guys a beer, one of these days...or an orange juice

[jome]

Just a quick point you may already be aware of:

4 minutes in static apnea does not translate to 4 minutes of spearing.

In fact, I consider a 2 minutes spearing dive very long and risky for my self, I very rarely push over 1:30...My static times are 7+. The reason being that when spearfishing, while I'm never out completely alone, there is usually no one to interfere immediately if I have problems (unlike cw diving). After a dive of 2 minutes, which mostly involves laying motionless in the bottom, I feel I'm "too close" to the limit to do it safely in those conditions.

But keep at it, nice progress!

[tahoeblue]

I have had good days spearfishing repeating 2 min. down and 2 min. up. Practically speaking, this is only good for shallower water and smaller fish. I have thought that spearing with a float, instead of a reel, would be a good way to extend actual bottom time. I haven't lined up with large fish frequently enough to feel the expense and hassle justified.

[rifmaniac]

I've started "serious" apnea training 3months ago.
I'm convinced that the best way to progress safely is not to train in water.
Training in water is to improve finning, and to try maximum dynamic apnea. My training is, like MERLIN, mosly dry training.
ERGOMETRIC BIKE/WEIGHT LIFTING:
*Bike: 20-25minutes at 120bpm(heart rate); I'm in aerobic range. I start at 25"breath hold and 25"breathing for 5'; then 30"/30" for 5'; then 35"/35" and so on till I reach a maximum (45"/45"), then I start trying to get the breathing time lower(40"/20")

*~20minutes of weight lifting:
I use the weight wich I can repeat lifting for at least 1' breath holding then 1'breathing. For each exercice, 3or 4 series. I do 2different exercices in 20'.

*Bike again, same exercice but at 140bpm.

*another 20' of weight lifting

*and if I feel like it, bike at 150bpm (this become quiet hard).


I train for 3 successive days, rest for 2 days. I allow myself 2 days rest before and after a spearfishing day.

Static has improved in these 3 months, but I still havn't tried a max. I just reach very easily my 4'30 (latest max, 6months ago)
My heart rate at rest has decreased, from 54-55, to 47-48.
Dive time while hunting is more often above 2' than before(reaching very often 2'30).
But I'm still not able to hunt with ease at 20m, wich is my major objective for the moment.

I don't think repeating static apneas as a training program is a usefull training for spearfishing or dynamic apnea.

[ramstam]

Static helps me train in many ways, the most important is getting to feel when my body needs air. On deep freedives I know that when my hands start to dance I have about 10 sec. to surface or risk a samba. I think static is needed to improve and train for any type of freedive, even during the periods of time when my swim trunks never dry for two weeks because I've been in the water so much, I still practice. I have done statics before bed for 20 years, it lets me know how my body is doing.

[greendiver]

Originally Posted by jome

Just a quick point you may already be aware of:

4 minutes in static apnea does not translate to 4 minutes of spearing.

In fact, I consider a 2 minutes spearing dive very long and risky for my self, I very rarely push over 1:30...My static times are 7+. The reason being that when spearfishing, while I'm never out completely alone, there is usually no one to interfere immediately if I have problems (unlike cw diving). After a dive of 2 minutes, which mostly involves laying motionless in the bottom, I feel I'm "too close" to the limit to do it safely in those conditions.

But keep at it, nice progress!

No..Obvoiusly, I did the 4 minutes on the couch , My dives are usually not longer then 1 minute, for safety reasons....But still I am happy with my improvement
Thanks for helping me guys!!

[greendiver]

Originally Posted by rifmaniac

I've started "serious" apnea training 3months ago.
I'm convinced that the best way to progress safely is not to train in water.
Training in water is to improve finning, and to try maximum dynamic apnea. My training is, like MERLIN, mosly dry training.
ERGOMETRIC BIKE/WEIGHT LIFTING:
*Bike: 20-25minutes at 120bpm(heart rate); I'm in aerobic range. I start at 25"breath hold and 25"breathing for 5'; then 30"/30" for 5'; then 35"/35" and so on till I reach a maximum (45"/45"), then I start trying to get the breathing time lower(40"/20")

*~20minutes of weight lifting:
I use the weight wich I can repeat lifting for at least 1' breath holding then 1'breathing. For each exercice, 3or 4 series. I do 2different exercices in 20'.

*Bike again, same exercice but at 140bpm.

*another 20' of weight lifting

*and if I feel like it, bike at 150bpm (this become quiet hard).


I train for 3 successive days, rest for 2 days. I allow myself 2 days rest before and after a spearfishing day.

Static has improved in these 3 months, but I still havn't tried a max. I just reach very easily my 4'30 (latest max, 6months ago)
My heart rate at rest has decreased, from 54-55, to 47-48.
Dive time while hunting is more often above 2' than before(reaching very often 2'30).
But I'm still not able to hunt with ease at 20m, wich is my major objective for the moment.

I don't think repeating static apneas as a training program is a usefull training for spearfishing or dynamic apnea.

Hey.....why is that, 20 meters down and up takes about 45 seconds, that means that you should have enough time...is it the pressure?

[rifmaniac]

Dive time while hunting is more often above 2' than before(reaching very often 2'30).
But I'm still not able to hunt with ease at 20m, wich is my major objective for the moment.


Hey.....why is that, 20 meters down and up takes about 45 seconds, that means that you should have enough time...is it the pressure?



probably the pressure;
I very rarely have access to "deep" fishing places; I usually fish in no more than 11m.
Above 18m, I get the feeling I'm doing an expiratory apnea; I don't really mind the feeling, but I still can't reach easily 2' above 18m.
It's also maybe because I don't have a good dynamic apnea, and when hunting "deep", you use less weight therefore giving a greater effort to descend.

[bluecape]

I know it's a very personal thing, but I used to do a lot of gym work when I was in my twenties, and I was looking for very technical approaches to training.

Now, I honestly find the best training for spearing is to just get into the water and spear. I still do cardio and a bit of weights at the gym, but mainly because it allows me to enjoy my diving more, stay pushing for a bit longer, and just because I like being fairly fit.
I have trained hard on statics and apnea walks etc etc, but I always see the biggest spike in my fitness comes during a time( On vacation usually ) when I am spearfishing everyday.

Regards

jeff

[greendiver]

Originally Posted by rifmaniac

I've started "serious" apnea training 3months ago.
I'm convinced that the best way to progress safely is not to train in water.
Training in water is to improve finning, and to try maximum dynamic apnea. My training is, like MERLIN, mosly dry training.
ERGOMETRIC BIKE/WEIGHT LIFTING:
*Bike: 20-25minutes at 120bpm(heart rate); I'm in aerobic range. I start at 25"breath hold and 25"breathing for 5'; then 30"/30" for 5'; then 35"/35" and so on till I reach a maximum (45"/45"), then I start trying to get the breathing time lower(40"/20")

*~20minutes of weight lifting:
I use the weight wich I can repeat lifting for at least 1' breath holding then 1'breathing. For each exercice, 3or 4 series. I do 2different exercices in 20'.

*Bike again, same exercice but at 140bpm.

*another 20' of weight lifting

*and if I feel like it, bike at 150bpm (this become quiet hard).


I train for 3 successive days, rest for 2 days. I allow myself 2 days rest before and after a spearfishing day.

Static has improved in these 3 months, but I still havn't tried a max. I just reach very easily my 4'30 (latest max, 6months ago)
My heart rate at rest has decreased, from 54-55, to 47-48.
Dive time while hunting is more often above 2' than before(reaching very often 2'30).
But I'm still not able to hunt with ease at 20m, wich is my major objective for the moment.

I don't think repeating static apneas as a training program is a usefull training for spearfishing or dynamic apnea.

Hell !!! I tried this program of yours today....I nearly had a heart attack at 140 bpm
I like to work out in the gym anyways...the combination with the weight training makes it really intesive...now see what well happen to my dive times!!
Thanks