breathing research

[aqua]

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...01-divers.html

[jome]

I guess this is what Tom was in Boston for a couple of weeks ago...

Can't wait for the results! Especially about packing and damage...

[naiad]

I am surprised that the CO2 tolerance of the divers and non-divers was the same. Some of my progress has been due to hyperventilation and packing, but I'm sure that without those methods I can do a lot longer statics and dynamics than I could when I started. Maybe it is the combination of high CO2 and low O2 that makes the difference, and one without the other is more difficult to deal with.

[pat fish]

maybe the level of pain due to increased co2 is the same - but the ability to stand that pain might still be different. So in the examination the freedivers group would still have been able to continue for much longer under increasing co2, although they bailed out at the same point of time in that specific examination.

i'm curious too about the packing examinations...

[ZAquaman]

Ok everyone,

This research seems to be breakthrough stuff in regards to our CO2 tolerance training ideas.

I'd like to bring this up for some more discussion. Anyone else blown away by this study???

[BennyB]

It's fascinating stuff. A few of the Aussie freedivers have participated in a lung packing study. I can't go into the results as they have not been published yet (plus it's a bit technical for my feeble mind!), however one of the things the scientist mentioned was that when she presented the first draft to a group of doctors, a couple of them were already familiar with packing as they had quadraplegic patients that packed air to assist their breathing. Apparently quite a few have learnt the technique by themselves. The loss of muscle use around the chest/lung area makes breathing very difficult and these guys have intuitively started packing when they breath.

It's an interesting world isn't it?

[SanSan]

I don't think this is about tests with Tom in Boston. I read this quite some time back... As fas as I know Tom did some other test inclucing ct-scans of his lung (with helium) and test about the pressure in lung while packih (he swallowed a baloon for that )...

[naiad]

Originally Posted by BennyB

I can't go into the results as they have not been published yet (plus it's a bit technical for my feeble mind!), however one of the things the scientist mentioned was that when she presented the first draft to a group of doctors, a couple of them were already familiar with packing as they had quadraplegic patients that packed air to assist their breathing. Apparently quite a few have learnt the technique by themselves. The loss of muscle use around the chest/lung area makes breathing very difficult and these guys have intuitively started packing when they breath.

I wish I'd known about packing a few years earlier. It would have made things a lot easier when I had a problem with loss of nerve control of breathing.

[superhornet59]

so wait, does this mean apnea jogging is pointless other then to potentialy increase lung capacity?

[matrixed82]

It really makes you think twice about torturing yourself doing CO2 tables and apnea jogging!

Could this mean that working on better relaxation to reduce the metabolism and proper ventillation would be more beneficial that doing tables? But I guess doing tables help you with that because you get to see what works and what doesn't.

[naiad]

CO2 tables definitely make a difference for me. I don't like them, but I have to admit that they do improve my apnea performance.

They also do help me to see what works and what doesn't.

[ZAquaman]

I think we all would agree that the CO2 tables help. This study seems to blow the doors off of the "why they help" question. It would be nice to have access to the details of this study. But in the meantime we are left to speculation.

This is a very exciting study to me. It leads me to believe that this sport is in the phase of "intuitive training". Great strides will be taken, as we understand freediving more thoroughly. Also, that physiological variables may play a smaller role in freediving excellence than anyone might have guessed.

I hope this ignites a fire in scientific communities to try to design quality studies that might quantify what makes an elite freediver.

[superhornet59]

i agree, CO2 tables can make a difference, but its all mental, its just learning to cope with it like boxers and soldiers cope with pain, reading a book wont teach you, you need to go out and do it. does anybody have a list of any good CO2 or O2 tables? my homebrew ones seem like they need to be replaced oh by the way, is it good to do an all out max hold at the end? i need some good ones for up to 3 minutes. and what are dynamic tables? same idea of building up but for distance?

also i would think apnea jogging has been disproven. anybody want to counter?

also, whats a really effective method for increasing lung capactiy, and working out the epiglotis (tongue doesnt work for craming, and it makes me want to cough because i can hold it, until i get underwater (due to outside pressure it gets better).

thanks -Matt

[naiad]

For me, CO2 tolerance is definitely physical as well as mental. If I have been training a lot, the CO2 level gets painful at a much later stage, and there are less contractions or none at all.

[Absolute]

Apnea jogging had good results with me.

6.5mph on the treadmill. Breathe for 20 sec hold for 10 and repeat for 30min. Real good way to get the latic acid in the legs going and get the heart beating.

Of course these are my times and speeds. Adjust them gradualy and don't over do your self. Consistancy is the key.