alcohol and training

[Bill McIntyre]

Its not just "many people" who say moderate drinking is good for your health. Many medical studies have said so. In fact I've read studies that say that teetotalers are at greater risk of death than moderate drinkers.

But in answer to your question, "why drink," I'll respond with "why dive?" After all, you would be safer if you didn't dive, but I am guessing that you still do it because it enhances your enjoyment of life. Drinking enhances my enjoyment of life too, and I have no apologies for saying so. Who knows, it may end up being bad for me, but at age 67 my liver function tests show no problem, so I'll keep on enjoying both diving and drinking.

By the way, stay out of the sun. It increases the risk of skin cancer.

[DeepThought]

I think many humans (and animals) tend to like altered states of mind.
Drugs can alter your state of mind.
Alcohol is a drug and a relatively available one with no real negative image (when used moderately).
People do alcohol because it makes them feel good (at some point).
I used to HAVE to drink when I went clubbing because otherwise I wasn't able to dance.
There are PLENTY of other reasons why people do things that are potentially harmful, many of them are stupid (the reasons and the people).

I know I like the freediving induced altered state of mind.

[sickbugs]

lol, good points bill


i make a lot of comments without thinking, like the "drinking is pointless" one, guess its cuz i dont like seeing drunk people all over the place, but anyways, ive been known to have a few drinks every now an then, i jus never made it a habbit, i enjoy the feeling that im totally in control of my body (one of the reasons i freedive) and i find it kinda sad the ammount of people out there that use the excuse, i didnt mean it, i was drunk

[adolphin]

ive heard of people who have smoked every day for their whole life also, who have lived to be over 100, yet we know that smoking is bad for health.

in my opinion, drinking is pointless.. its proven to be bad for your health, many people say that drinking in moderation isnt bad, but then, what is moderation? if i drink 5 or 6 rum and cokes in a night, i dont feel a thing, yet some people will be drunk and sleeping it off in the street, doesnt that show that there is no set moderate ammount to drink? its proven to slow your reaction times, impair your reasoning, so, why drink? apart from the fact that you can?

I agree with sickbugs on that.

Its not just "many people" who say moderate drinking is good for your health. Many medical studies have said so.

How many of those studies Bill ? and have you compared them with studies saying No No No ? is it a 1:1 ratio or maybe 1:1000 ? by the way, most studies that say it's good they say it's good (period), while there are thousand of studies that each talk about one BIG don't regarding drinking while doing something or how it's bad for a certain part or organ of the body, which one of the two do you believe is more scintific, more objective? there was once one, ONLY ONE study that stated that drinking alcohol is one of the most serious dangers to human life, in all it's aspects (a meaning which I imposed in my comment here), such a study actually did a statistical gathering of all studies that was done on alcohol plus statistics on it's actual effects on life (from hospital records, police cases, economic bodies analysis .. etc) and made one multi thousand page report made by a group of elite doctors and researchers (best of the best) who are known of thier honestness and devotion to socity, that was done sometime in the 70s in the US, the report was given officially to the authorities in the US government with an official request to Bann alcohol drinking in the hole country !!! .. alot of inside discussions and negotiations was done (that was known because of the strong and continues follow up from that group) but the file was closed eventually with a comment that this is impossible and that those concerned doctors and researchers should do their best to inform the scocity and then each person will decide what he/she should do !! .. it was clearly understood that this has something to do with anti- actions taken by the giant alcohol products companies which paid alot to stop this project. I got this infos directly from one of the doctors who was involved into this report making, I don't recall the details now (that conversation took place about 14 years back) but I can try reaching to him and get refreshed with some refrenses as well. by the way, a similar study was done about music as well !!

But in answer to your question, "why drink," I'll respond with "why dive?" After all, you would be safer if you didn't dive, but I am guessing that you still do it because it enhances your enjoyment of life. Drinking enhances my enjoyment of life too, and I have no apologies for saying so. Who knows, it may end up being bad for me, but at age 67 my liver function tests show no problem, so I'll keep on enjoying both diving and drinking.

Well Bill, I may disapoint you by saying that I don't do dangerous acts only for fun, although they are always joyful and fun to do, I always do it to elaborate in my physical and mental efficiency, if you convince me that free diving is bad for health then I surely quit, it's not about risks involved in practising it as there are risks in using the oven at homes and in driving cars .. etc, risks that are fully or partially elliminated by following best practises. No, we are talking about health problems, economic, social, crime .. many other impact, one is enough for me to stop my activity if any, because I'm doing it for my good and goodness of the scocity. And yes, I see it one of the worst things to loose my mind even for minutes, even partially, unless I'm obliged to ! which is not the case in consuming alcohol.. .. again my to all.

[fcallagy]

Hi adolphin,
I see where your coming from but imho life is to be lived I don,t believe in abusing myself to the extent that i harm myself or others ( and i think the jury is still out on whether freediving is good for you ) but do what you enjoy and enrich your life rather than keeping to all ideals all the time. For some people this may be enjoyable I like wine with a meal and drink if I go out but with family commitments thats not all that often. Beacuse I,m doing some heavier training ( for me ) now I,m not taking any for the next 6-8 weeks and I haven,t had any for 4- 5 anyway so its not a big deal to me but I don,t think I am harming myself too much in either case.

[adolphin]

Hi fcallagy ..
Well, this view is comon in too many things in life, I believe there's a big difference between thinking and knowing that's for sure, I could follow what I think or think not, but knowing what's good or bad for me and for the world makes a lot of difference, it's the same when it comes to environmental issues such as the issue of killing whales or when it's about alcohol, as long as it's a fact, don't you agree?
Where I come from they believe that this whole universe is one big complicated system that works all together, each movement has an effect on the whole system, some movements are mild some are more strong, others are fatal, in all cases we are responsible for all our movements (and non-movments alike) and should take this responsibility with big conciousness, we look at alcohol consumption as a dangerous issue, it happened that new science is standing at the same side, it's normal, facts of life are FACTS when you look at them objectivly.

[island_sands]

Originally Posted by adolphin

Hi fcallagy ..
for the world makes a lot of difference, it's the same when it comes to environmental issues such as the issue of killing whales or when it's about alcohol, as long as it's a fact, don't you agree?

ohhhh that's a whole discussion on it own.. see this...
http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthr...ght=whale+ring

[adolphin]

And oh yes fcallagy, life is to be lived that's for sure..
now did any one told you that those who don't drink alcohol are not living ? ..
and thanks Bill, I believe you answered my question partially, it's about joy. Now don't we know many other acts that might be joyful for some people, acts that are very bad? well, maybe drinking alcohol doesn't look obviously as bad to you as much as some criminal acts, such as killing, stealing or raping ! .. after all bad acts can't be accepted just because it's joyful, as long as it's bad not only for the person commiting it, but to the socity as well then it should not be tolerated. Right?
Hey guys .. I'm not criminalizing your act of drinking, at least it's legal where you are living, it's just my way when I get examples I get extremes to make it crystal clear what my point is. I hope it is clear.
With to all .. and dive safe ..

[matrixed82]

Originally Posted by adolphin

How many of those studies Bill ? and have you compared them with studies saying No No No ? is it a 1:1 ratio or maybe 1:1000 ? by the way, most studies that say it's good they say it's good (period), while there are thousand of studies that each talk about one BIG don't regarding drinking while doing something or how it's bad for a certain part or organ of the body, which one of the two do you believe is more scintific, more objective?

Most recent studies show that there are health benefits associated with light-to-moderate drinking of alcohol (quick search through PubMed). Like everything else, moderation is the key and yes, heavy drinking can kill you.

[fcallagy]

Island sands just read most of that thread that was a good thread
adolphin your right about things being unacceptable to society thats what I meant by not harming others. we all have belief systems that are shaped by our past experiances, traditions, and sometimes facts but whats acceptable with one set of beliefs may not be with some one elses. In Ireland we are a hugely changed country over the past 20 years as some religous leaders told us how to live our lives as they saw fit eventually it came out they were not living up to these sentiments themselves and so change began in a big way.
However we are straying off the topic, it would be interesting to see how many champion freedivers do take alcohol at all or how much at times. I am not a champion freediver or sports person so its not going to affect my performance dramaticly I think the main problem is dehydration after a skipful of drink but others may know of other effects

[adolphin]

sands ! .. how are you ?! .. oh my .. what a thread, I thought whaling issue is so clear for freedivers .. well. it seems it's not that clear or is it that the few participations in the thread is giving that feeling .. thank God we don't eat whales, dolphins nor turtles, and ofcourse we don't eat dugong as a shiat muslim ofcourse (since others do).. Oo! I should have said this in the other thread, sorry commonerg ..
fcallagy, I got a general knowledge about Ireland as a socity, I've been there by the way (southern Ireland) man, it's sooooo beautiful ! I love it and I love it's people, they are so nice indeed.
Well, I prefer not to make it a religous subject, coz it's not, commonerg brought the thread from a medical point of view, I'm discussing it from a scintific and medical point of few, economic, social .. etc. not religous, coz then it would be merely a matter of what does the named religon say. We want something more global, human .. right ..

[fcallagy]

hi adolphin
cool don,t wanna make this religious either just making the point that it can, whether we realise it or not shape what we choose to believe/understand is right. Certainly from a medical point of view I would agree its bad for you, it kills brain cells and is a depressant but sometime a little of whats bad for you can be good for you imho. If your ever back this way give us a shout it is a great spot but is raining heavy here at present and wind is due to pick up just in time for my week end off.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by adolphin

Hey guys .. I'm not criminalizing your act of drinking, at least it's legal where you are living, it's just my way when I get examples I get extremes to make it crystal clear what my point is. I hope it is clear.
With to all .. and dive safe ..

Well frankly, your posts were not at all clear to me. They read like you might have had a bit too much to drink.

[commonerg]

I guess I should involve myself in this thread again. My purpose in starting this thread was to gather more objective information so that I can make better judgments on the amount I drink. The way I see it, any decision we make is carried out by weighting the known positives and negatives of alternatives to find the most beneficial choice in each case. How much weight each individual puts on the outcomes of drinking is not really of interest to me. In essence, the decision of others outside of the actual social situations I’m in should not change my decision. The only reason I might change my behavior based on the decisions of another is if I think that person knows something that I don’t about the effects of drinking. However, I would rather know what that person knows than know what they do.

In general, I understand what the positives of drinking are. I don’t really need to know the science behind why it makes me feel good because I’m only interested in the perceived feeling anyway. As for the negatives, I want to know the science because I have to predict as I make the decision how I will feel the next day and how it will affect my performance. The more I understand about the science behind the whole process, the more my decision will actually represent an optimal one for me.

What ever decision you make, I admire it. We all value things differently but we should all value information the same way because it helps us get more of what we value.

[spaghetti]

If I was born in Yemen or in Pakistan, I would probably suscribe everything adolphin says. But I'm an italian, and drinking wine is a very important feature of my culture. Our poets wrote poems about wine for thousands years, our artists painted people drinking wine, our religion has much to do with it.
You see, every town here makes its own peculiar wine, and each wine gets its name from the region or even from the small village where it's produced. Each of them is different, a result of centuries of experience, depending on terrain, techniques of production, taste of local typical food that must fit well with the local wine. Drinking it is not just drinking, it's a cultural heritage difficult to explain if you don't feel it deep inside yourself.
However, i usually drink after diving