alcohol and training

[adolphin]

Hi commonerg,

I was refering to putting weight on the actual outcomes ...

I got it ..

Still, is my idea true to you? .. does it count? .. coz otherwise I don't have to make sure to put links as references for scientific foundings and so on, right? .. got to know man, it will cut the work short ..

[Pastor]

Thank goodness for that
Can we all go out for a pint now

[spaghetti]

Originally Posted by Pastor

Thank goodness for that
Can we all go out for a pint now

HURRA'!!
......
adolphin, wine is not as bad as you think: overdrinking is bad, getting drunk is bad, addiction is bad, burgered liver is bad, all the terrible diseases related to alcohol excess are bad. But if you do it moderately, it's a good thing. The oldies in my family all live over age 90, they're okay and they still enjoy their wine (and grappa).
Freediving wise, I've seen with my eyes Umberto Pelizzari enjoying his "Groppello". And all our greatest spearfishing champions drink wine. Religion wise, Jesus turned water to wine, not to 7Up ;-)
My question to you is: if you had the power to decide for all of us, would you ban alcohol? I mean, if you were the king of the world, would you make it no more allowed? Please, answer frankly...

[SEDATE]

all kind of drinks...consist of alcohol is good,i love being drunk

[adolphin]

I'm sorry commonerg, talks are going into different direction, it looks like it's because of me, but let me answer spaghetti's question ... pleeeeease ..
No more of this thing .. yes .. the last one .. ok?

spaghetti, dear, if it was up to me, I was to bann alcohol, yes for sure, because this is what it was meant to be, banned .. does that mean that people will stop drinking? ofcourse NOT, because it was already banned, thousand of years back, yet very popular today, all religions of God banned it: Jewism, Christianity, Islam, Budhism, Hinduism ... all.

Religion wise, Jesus turned water to wine, not to 7Up ;-)

First of all, I love that smiley face of yours .. second, This story is coming from the new testement, it's a story that was told by one person about what Jesus the christ did, it doesn't mean it has happened for real, you have to differenciate between Old testement (that contains the rules of what to do and what not to do) which has banned alcohol, banned zwan meat, banned adultery .. many other things that are drunk, eaten and commited since then till today, and the new testement which includes the stories recited by the apostles and other wittnesses of Jesus the Christ era. It could be truely Jesus Holy words, or otherwise a personal point of view of the script writer.

And yes, not to 7Up, that's why I don't recommend 7Up as an alternative to water .. ;-) .. although it's not banned ofcourse ..

How bad is wine? .. I know that .. do you know?
Oh no, this is not a question to be answered spaghetti, vero .. we need to bring this thread to its original direction .. we can talk about this subject as much as we want in a proper forum, maybe not DB since it's a speciality forum.
Vorrei discutere questo soggetto.. vero.. ma non qui .. approvazione? ..

[Pastor]

Jeez Adolph will you give it a rest! Your culture and our culture are different! Live with it! Neither one is right and neither is wrong. This is a diving forum!

[adolphin]

Pastor
Oh my God .. you freaked them all out .. ! no one is even saying a single word ! .. lol .. come on .. I'm just kidding.

Originally posted by Pastor:
This is a diving forum

Originally posted by Adolphin:
we need to bring this thread to its original direction .. we can talk about this subject as much as we want in a proper forum, maybe not DB since it's a speciality forum.

Yes Pastor, you are right, and this is exactely what I said as you can read above ..

Still, I'll say this comment and it will be the last (lol .. no realy the last time, any other posts that has nothing to do with commonerg original purpose of putting this thread, I'll answer it by private messages).

I don't understand why you always bring it back to cultural difference ! .. I'm talking physics and chemistry of the human body .. how any human body would react toward alcohol concuming .. this is pure physics and chemistry my friend .. if you have any information opposit to this, please say it, this is all what this thread is about, now maybe I was little too general in my posts, the scope of this thread is related to alcohol effects on freediving (which is more specific than what I've said), but still, my comments has alot to do with the subject.
The idea of alcohol being bad for the physical part but good for the sychological part of human health !! come on, give me abreak .. alcohol is known to be a depressent .. when you drink it, it makes you feel good because it turns your senses off (at least turn it down), your memory becomes weaker, your sight, your balance .. every thing, but hey! when you wake up next day, the depressing effect starts, it's right that you where hiding away from your problems and turn downs for few hours, but during that time (being under the effect of alcohol) you are not ready to face those problems (coz your senses are less sharp, you are narrow minded as we say), now when you are awake, you are more depressed than what you were before drinking (and the last thing you want to have as a back up is to be more depressed when it comes to problem solving and facing day to day challenges), and don't think that I'm talking about only when you get realy drunk! .. no, read research and you will know that it's an acumulating substance, it's effect is always there, it just get stronger with higher concentrations in the body .. so what's the point of alcohol being good for sychology !!
I think the points I'm talking about are so clear, all specialised research centers back it up, but it's just like when you talk to smokers about how bad smoking is to their health, they would tend to bring reasons on why would they keep doing it, usually nonsenses, if you keep on reminding them of negative effects, they sooner or later opens the cultural matter, and the sychological issues, and that although it's bad but it's nice ! .. I understand the ethical problem here: if I accept that what I'm doing is wrong then I'll have to stop doing it, now I know I just can not stop it, maybe I can reduce it, soooo, well, I'll have then to deffend that it's not that bad specially that I'm not doing it that often or that strong,I have to defend the subject this way, otherwise I wont be able to release the feeling of being guilty for doing the bad thing .

Coming to the cultural thing, please .. the cultural part about drinking alcohol is only about how easy it is to accept drinking, versus how easy it is to accept not to drink (in the socity), since in your culture it's easier to drink rather than not to drink (means it's hard to go social with out accepting a glass or two of alcohol). Now in my socity, tea and coffe are very important socially, it could be looked at as an insult if I visit somebody's house and not drink one of the two -actually in UAE it's more the coffe side .. .. ok, let me tell you that I stopped drinking both for the last 14 years ! .. and still I'm living in the socity, yet social .. and well accepted by the socity. Anyway, it's just important that we stop talking about the social differences, coz it is not related to our subject here, it's all about science, about health.
Now Pastor, regarding the idea that neither one is right and neither is wrong, I could accept it for now if you mean to talk about the cultures, if you are talking about the scientific findings then you know clearly that there is only one piece of information about every physical issue that could be addressed as "Fact" while other pieces of information that has a conflict with the so called "Scientific Fact" will be accordingly concedered scientifically "wrong" .. have a nice day.

Dive safe ..

[adolphin]

Now after this I have to appologize to commonerg for all the mess that went on here .. it was supposed that you get informative comments about alcohol and training, not a cultural debate ! .. as I said in my last post, I will not comment on any other posts here that is addressed to me but not about "alcohol and training" ! .. instead I may send them my comment as a private message. I hope freedivers will resume their posts on the original subject .. ciao ! ..

[Spaniard]

I get hammered all the time. It's great!!!!!! In fact I'm going out tonight to get hammered.......Cold seawater is great for getting rid of a hangover.

[Pastor]

Did someone step on a duck?
..............................................

[Pastor]

I'm confused on the news this morning the man was telling me that alcohol was good for me and me missus is this a conspiracy to kill me off before my time?
Man I just dont know who to believe! Someone is telling porkies

[adolphin]

Hi Pastor ..
The Professor who did the search about alcohol effect in reducing the risk of coronary mortality in men is Professor Morten Gronbaek (Lead researcher) from the National Institute of Public Health. Now please read:

http://www.englemed.demon.co.uk/thisweek.htm ... for the same Professor !! (roll down to monday)

When I checked the actual research done ... see:

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte.../310/6988/1165 .. make sure to check the graphs.

together with another similar research .. see:

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...l/312/7033/731

and I examined one of the references (of the second research).. that is reference # 14 .. here is the study Abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Read it together please and tell me what you think ..

[Pastor]

Kinell!! Someones telling porkies somewhere. I really thought you could trust the BBC to give you the right info. If you cant believe the beeb WTF can you trust
I'm off down the pub for a pork pie and a pint

[adolphin]

well .. if it comes to me I wont mistrust the intentions of those research centers (the goodwill), furthermore, what the BBC mentioned is actually part of the research results, we should not argue with that .. the point is:

Is what was mentioned in the BBC news considered as the final FACT to be announced, or is it still a partial study that needs to be further investigated with cross researchs before putting it to the public?

plus few notes:

1. If Diet could explain health benefits from wine then why should we deside that it's wine that effects health rather than the low colestrol diet (as the study suggests: Professor Gronbaek and his team write: "Variation in diet associated with the preferred drink may explain why wine has an additional beneficial effect on health. [In our study] wine buyers made more purchases of healthy food items than people who buy beer." ... further more he adds:
"The influence of type of alcoholic drink on mortality could be due to insufficient adjustment for lifestyle factors such as diet, drinking patterns, smoking, physical activity, education, or income." ) ?

2. by looking at the graphs in Professor Gronbaek research, I noticed that the line that represent the number of coronary mortalities in the graph is not going down steadly except in the wine, it's a zigzag with the beer, and actually going up with the spirit !! .. now the question (which Professor Gronbaek himself raised): doesn't all the three has alcohol (ethanol) in them? .. it's the same substance (ethanol) that is alcohol, while the other substances that builds up the differences between the three drinks are not alcohol .. so, even if we ignore the first point mentioned above about associating wine with diet, can we really say that the possitive effect of wine in reducing mortalities from coronary deseases is because of
alcohol (Ethanol) ? .. no we can't, if we do then it should be true also for beer and spirit in the same way, which is not.

3. By looking at the other study, I was interested in seing the statistics done on over 40 countries (with different cultures and lifestyles) to see some really major statistics .. to my surprise the study is all about : Differences in coronary mortality can be explained by differences in cholesterol and saturated fat intakes in 40 countries but not in France and Finland. A paradox. .. it's not about alcohol .. but the Cholesterol-Saturated Fat Index (CSI) !

4. I would really be interested in a study that compares the effect of wine versus the effect of vinegar on reducing the coronary mortalities. a country such as Italy for example ( I remember spaghetti's comment about the elders in Italy being healthy till 90s and more), they use alot of vinegar, olive oil, garlic and vegitables, specially greens .. all these nutrients have a lot to do with healthy hearts .. good for them ..

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by adolphin

4. I would really be interested in a study that compares the effect of wine versus the effect of vinegar on reducing the coronary mortalities. a country such as Italy for example ( I remember spaghetti's comment about the elders in Italy being healthy till 90s and more), they use alot of vinegar, olive oil, garlic and vegitables, specially greens .. all these nutrients have a lot to do with healthy hearts .. good for them ..

The wine may not be the cause of long lives. Maybe it is indeed the eating habits. But it doesn't seem to prevent longevity either. I'll settle for that.