haha.... damn B/Os

[superhornet59]

ok so after making my post yesterday about fighting contractions, i was curious to see my dynamic distance. so im walking out of the computer lab in the library, and i didnt realy pack but i took a significantly deep breath. anyway so im walkin out and i start to feel a bit dizzy. this happens to me when i do a static while standing, blood drains from my head a bit, and usualy after a few seconds its over. this time, no. i was headed for the exit of the library, when i felt a bit dizzy. i figured itd pass. well it didnt, i ended up blacking out right by the reception desk. there wasnt that many people there so it wasnt a big scene, but still my teachers told me i looked pale, and i should go home. so i did that. got carpet burn on my face and a piss angry ache on my elbow. but this is realy annoying me... how can i reduce the effects that packing has on the blood flow to my head? i admit i was pretty hungry and i didnt get much sleep the night before, and it was at 9 in the morning so i was tired. still what can i do to stop this? its ridiculous everytime i take a deep breath while standing i get all dizzy.

what can i do to stop this?
thanks -Matt

[naiad]

Packing while standing is not a good idea. If I did that, I would pass out on the floor every day, which is why I don't do it.

If you are going to do any kind of dry apnea, do it on a soft surface, and it is better to have someone supervising you, and for people around you to know what you are doing. Blacking out in a public place is not good.

You started some other threads on this, there are some good answers...
http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=64575
http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=65018

If you are blacking out all the time, you need to rethink your methods of training!

I do all my dry training on a soft surface, so I never hurt myself if things go wrong.

Lucia

[trux]

Originally Posted by naiad

... Blacking out in a public place is not good.

Do not forget that Matt blacked out in school and was then sent home. If I knew such a simple trick when I was in the college, I would be home every other day (and diving instead)

[naiad]

That's true. If I had only discovered blackouts and sambas 15 years ago, it would have saved me so much trouble. Or maybe it would have been a bad thing, as I would have ended up hurting myself.

I once deliberately blacked out by holding my breath to escape from a stressful situation, unfortunately no-one saw it.

[superhornet59]

oops i forgot about this thread :P. but ya, it was accidental and all. my vice principal is telling me im not allowed to do static or dynamic apnea in school. i told him hes ignorant and should read up, and that no way in hell would i let him stop me from doing what i love. i did a 4:30 static in his office .

okok so ive already made threads on this... i posted this more to sorta brag lol. i got out of school by fainting! shear genious :P! i got some ugly carpet burn on my chin though. but im thinking of doing this more often, except that people dont get it. my class mates sorta laughed it off and told me im insane, cause they think i did like a 6 min hold and then blacked out. i just cant ram it into there thick eads that its from packing, and packing effects everyone, sadly i look like a bit of a.... wus? common a fainted! thats not manly atol!

well either way... ill keep this trick up my sleeve...

[ROBERT REYES]

Had a friend training while driving his car, once he called me to tell me, he was at a red light, and hit the car in front of him because he blacked out, he said he was calling me so I wont do it????????
I think he was making the call and was still not out of it completely, all I could hear was the other driver cursing at him.

[sickbugs]

blacking out is not something to take lightly, i remember reading a msn article about kids in the US deliberately holding their breath/choking themselves (not sure which) till they blacked out, and there were deaths linked directly to this, i dont feel bad about that, because they are prime candidates for the darwin awards, but it does give a somewhat negative look to what you are doing. your not making freediving in general look any better to the people around you, now they know 2 people (you and david blaine) that blacked out from holding their breath, not good for the sport at all.

[naiad]

Originally Posted by sickbugs

i remember reading a msn article about kids in the US deliberately holding their breath/choking themselves (not sure which) till they blacked out, and there were deaths linked directly to this

This was done at my school, when I was about 12. I tried it myself, but couldn't manage to black out. In that case it was not a game, but a desperate attempt to avoid exams. Of course I wouldn't do anything like that now.

Maybe stating the obvious, but it is a very bad idea to do any sort of training while driving, or even while walking in the street. It just isn't worth the risk.

Lucia

[sheepeck]

Yo - I remeber that BO pranks we did when being at elementary school years. We did it by squating for about a minute and then fast standing up and holding breath. The others who watched were around to catch you to prevent from free fall on ground. We once competed at lenght of BO. My friend BO for about 20 sec and I started worry about him that time. But - as it usually is - silly children were OK and nothing wrong happen to us.
But luckily - I didn't realized BO while diving or my statics and I don't want to. Hope it will stay like that.

[colt.45]

Ha ha, Brilliant! I'll have to remember that for my next big test

[sheepeck]

It wasn't considered to be any kind of advice You can get hurt very easily - you would fall straight to the floor. Forget trying it.

[naiad]

Same here - I didn't mean it as advice. Just stating a fact.

[tylerz]

Ok, but back to the point of why some people have issues more than others with full inhales, let alone packing...

Matt, the first thing I would say is that from my own experience I have found that low/high blood pressure can be completely irrelevant. I tend to have average to high blood pressure, yet, I have had numerous periods of light-headedness, fainting, and BO. I have also had periods where this does not occur. One doctor said the symptoms were similar to what commonly occurs in the elderly; namely that the light-headedness is due to tolerances to changes in blood pressure as opposed to low or high blood pressure. Sounded like he was trying to imply that we can become more or less sensitive to changes in blood pressure from any reference initial blood pressure.

After a while I found a pattern in my life that certainly causes these fluxuations in my ability to withstand full inhales and standing up rapidly, being the amount of time I spend in a reclined or lying down position! Because my work has been computer based and I have back problems and other various problems, I was trying laying down while I work and various chairs that would lean back significantly more than an average office chair, something more similar to a lounge chair. The more degree I am reclined into a laying down position the more sensitive I become to blood pressure changes. Because my work is long hours and so mentally intensive, I often go for many hours without getting up. Even getting up every hour is still not enough to avoid it. I had designed a custom workstation allowing me to lie down all day while working. After only one day of using it, just getting up from a sitting position would cause me to begin fainting. I thought it would pass and stubbornly tried to persist in using it. Things just got worse and worse. I gave up and it took me a few days at least to recover. A year later, I attempted it again to see if it had just been an isolated situation. Same thing after only two half days using it.

I recently had another possible discovery, this can be countered it appears by every time you do get up, doing intense weight lifting. I found doing 6-8 bicep curls of max weight you can handle (I was doing the odd other maneuver as well), seems to offset the problem of light-headedness. I was almost passing out every session I would go to Bikram's Yoga (heated room yoga; 37 degrees), evening having sambas often. After a few days of the routine I mentioned above, I made it through the following classes without any of the fainting trouble. I had already determined that being more active throughout the day, in general countered the problem, but sometimes one can not be more active throughout the day. However, to grab some weights or do push ups at every break, is quite plausible.

I suspect that any dormant state for long periods of time would induce this problem since the body would be experiencing less fluxuations in blood pressure throughout the day. Under normal circumstances people are active to a degree, causing their body to regularly be subjected to blood pressure fluxuations, which keeps these symptoms from occurring. Why laying down or reclining strengthens the symptoms, I can not quite place my finger on a clear reasoning yet, but I suspect the heart becomes less responsive at increasing its stroke in response to pressure changes. Anybody have any knowledge in this?

However, I think it would be safe to claim that overall this condition affects each of us to varying degrees naturally, but since as well our lifestyles vary so dramatically we may have taken for granted how much of these symptoms are caused by what I am describing. So, give it a try. If anybody is having issues with light-headedness, add weightlifting or push-ups to your daily routines at every chance you get. See if you notice a difference and report back.

Cheers,

Tyler

[ROBERT REYES]

If it happens to you, underwater by yourself, you wont come back from it.

[Walrus]

This is usually referred to as a Hypocapnic/packing blackout. Classic case is lots of hyperventilating, then lots of packing and then you are out. But it is probably also a combination of Orthostatic hypotension (postural hypotension) which is a sudden fall in blood pressure that occurs when a person going from sitting or lying down to standing up. This is what more elderly people are prone too, however like Tyler said almost everyone get's it the some degree, some more then others. I remember when I was young I have blacked out just from sitting down watching tv for hours, then suddenly got to my feet took a few steps, next thing I know I banged my face in a door then was on the ground before I knew what happened.

You are more prone to this when metabolism is low, ie in the morning or at night, particularly if you haven't eaten in a while. I was getting it quite a bit after pool training in the morning, no food, sitting in the spa bath for a while and standing up after I have nearly fallen over several times.
With the packing blackouts I always used to get very dizzy on the start of a dynamic with lots of packing. I have since cut down hyperventilating and only do a very mild breathe up even for maxes, and now have no problems even with max packing.



So from these 2 effects the worst case scenario would by sitting or lying down, hyperventilating, then packing and jumping to your feet and walk or run really fast. I suggest no one try this though.

If you are prone to this you can :-

- Don't breathe up sitting down then standing up to do an apnea walk, breathe up standing up.

- Cut out or reduce hyperventilating.

- Cut out or reduce packing

- If you feel yourself getting dizzy stop the apnea and start hook breathing

- If you are sitting down, get up slowly in stages, lean against a wall etc


Cheers,
Wal