Italy banned freediving competitions!

[pkotik]

The only thing that surprises me about this development in Italy is that it took this long to happen.

All of you people who have (quiet correctly) asked why logical consistency would not require bans of other activities may well find your rhetorical questions anwered with the flourish of some clerk's pen, be it in Rome, London or Brussels. The logic that underlies this hideous little swipe at freediving is on the march in Europe, and elsewhere.

As more than one forum participant has noted, the deep issue is that of personal responsibility. Deep it is. Let us wonder how many of us cry foul when this or that ban impinges on our freedoms, but are at the same time content to be relieved of responsibility for our education, medical care and other goods.

Let's not be astonished when the other shoe falls. Look for more of the same.

[Erik]

Originally Posted by pkotik

Let us wonder how many of us cry foul when this or that ban impinges on our freedoms, but are at the same time content to be relieved of responsibility for our education, medical care and other goods.

.

Libertarians unite!
Erik Y.

[Jee]

I agree with Spaghetti, and doubt, that they will find a solution for the BO problem. (Why not inspecting the effect of a BO of this kind on the health instead?)

I think, that this ban strengthen the position of AIDA in Italy - which is not bad IMO.

If we think of the spirit of the great freedivers of Italy, then we could see, that the real depth disciplines are the (essential) part of that. And AIDA supports these disciplines, comparing to other organization, which don't.

[naiad]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

My comment (worth my 2 euro cents): the members of the medical commission are the most competent italian specialists of UW related pathologies, but I wonder how will they, in 2 months, discover how to eliminate BO's in freediving practice and how to prevent long term desease (taravana, etc.), which are mainly an unknown terrain for medicine. Mah...

How to eliminate BO's in freediving practice? Maybe we could have a maximum allowed static time of 1 minute, a dynamic distance of 20m and a depth of 3m. That way, I'm sure there won't be any accidents of any kind ever again.

Seriously, if they are trying to eliminate all BO's, I don't think that is possible, as long as we have people pushing the limits and trying new techniques. I agree that it is almost impossible that they will find a solution in 2 months.

Safety nonsense brings out the rebel in me...

[trullalla]

octopus,
only fipsas is legally allowed to organize freediving competition in italy. if somebody else do it, and the fipsas people get to know it (and they will get to know!) they send the police over, close everything up and send everybody at home. it happened already last year in andora.

aida can't do anything about it, since it's legally a non-existent freediving organization. aida italy can organize comps in france, or any other country other than italy... that's why for italian freedivers it's hard to pass to aida: they know they have to start travel abroad and pay their own expenses if they want to compete. so they stay in fipsas and everything paid for...but if now they ban competitions....there's no reason for them to stay in there any longer.

hey fred, how you doing?? too bad you're not here. there's a bunch of very nice people around!

[Jee]

Originally Posted by naiad

How to eliminate BO's in freediving practice? Maybe we could have a maximum allowed static time of 1 minute, a dynamic distance of 20m and a depth of 3m. That way, I'm sure there won't be any accidents of any kind ever again.

I read articles about the freediving history in Hungary, and they went in this direction. (this whole thing happened before sociallism).
So as the distances grow for dynamic apnea, they thought it is not safe, and limitied the distance to 50m. After that the only thing that counted is the time - the faster the diver, the more the points..
It liked the finswimming now, whre (at pool) only the time matters.
(interestingly there were other disciplines, like jumping in the water and sliding the farest as possible.)

[spaghetti]

Trullalla, friendly, about that police thing (it was the sea authority, Capitaneria di Porto) at Andora, let me explain: put that way, it seems we're a Banana Republic or some fascist regime...
Believe it or not, sports regulation are a serious thing in this country (I'm talking about written rules, then humans are still humans), and, to make it short, only organizations recognized by the Olympic Commitee are entitled do run sport events, especially on public areas like the sea, where safety issues may outcome.
In that episode, the Capitaneria stopped Aida's Andora meeting, just because Aida was not legally entitled to do that. If it takes a permission to do a thing in a public area, and you don't have it, this is what happens in a state of right. Just for precision.

[Alexx]

Originally Posted by naiad

How to eliminate BO's in freediving practice?

Easily, when a competitor does BO he should not be allowed to compete for 6-12 months. Just my opinion. Possible damage to the brain after BO can't be detected because it's dispersed on whole brain (seems logical to me, maybe it's wrong). We have to wait for many years to see what are the consequences of blacking out often (whatever "often" means) like some of the competitors do. It seems like we are still "hunting in blurred water"...

Just my 2 lipas (1 lipa=0.01 kuna)

[kingohyes]

How much is 0.01 kuna

[Alexx]

1 Croatian kuna = 0.137653831 Euro as Google says (hint: "1 kuna in euro")
So, 0.01 kuna = 0.137653831 euro cent

[Jee]

About 0.3 Hungarian Forint.

[laminar]

Good luck to FIPSAS and their medical review, I say. Because they are going to have a hell of a time making freediving safe.

1. Preventing blackouts: Impossible. Anyone can black themselves out if they hyperventilate for 10 minutes and pack their lungs to the maximum, even before starting the dive or static!
2. Preventing sambas: Impossible. See above.
3. Preventing DCS: Impossible to guarantee that no one will get DCS. After all, everyone's physiology is unique and freediving doesn't have any tables of any worth. (I've read that many DCS incidents happen to Scuba divers well within tables).
4. Preventing Barotrauma: You may as well lobotomize all the competitive freedivers who take the risk getting squeezed or breaking their eardrums for a new pb or national record, because this will continue.



Let's have FIPSAS review the following sports and make them "safe":
1. Formula 1 car racing: no collisions or crashes allowed, drivers must not ever put their cars in gear.
2. Downhill skiing: no crashes or collisions allowed, skiers must walk down the mountain at a brisk pace only with a full retinue of safety attendants who will carefully scan for icy patches.
3. Boxing: boxers will now shadow box with each other, points awarded for style, footwork and intensity!

I'm all for rules that promote safety and I have spent many hours arguing about AIDA rules with other freedivers and trying to come up with common sense rules like many of us here in this forum. But at some point there needs to be an equilibirum of individual and collective responsibility (freediver vs. organizing body). FIPSAS is moving away from that and AIDA still has some growth to do in that direction.

I think none of us understand the importance of FIPSAS in Italy and the legal weight it carries. However, if it ceases to hold freediving events, something eventually will rise to take it's place. Civilization abhors a vaccuum even more than Nature does.

My 2 cents Canadian.

Pete

[ROBERT REYES]

We Should Not Take This As A Joke.

[ggarrett]

Originally Posted by laminar

Let's have FIPSAS review the following sports and make them "safe":

One "sport" that does not get much notice but bears on freediving is sychronized swimming. In talking to lifeguards at various pools in Colorado, they told me that BOs happen "at most every synchonized swimming competition." Does anyone have more insight to add?

Peace,
Glen

[JPPLAY]

Originally Posted by ggarrett

they told me that BOs happen "at most every synchonized swimming competition." Does anyone have more insight to add?

This is completely untrue. I have been around synchronized swimming most of my life and have never seen a blackout. I know of a few cases of blackout happening to synchronized swimming but they are very rare. The cases in question weren't even when the swimmers were doing synchronized swimming but having fun at the bottom of a dive tank.
On a side note if we got some national level synchronized swimming into the sport we would have some long no fin dynamics. I know of one swimmer that could tie or break the current national no fins dynamic record in their prime. This is with no freediving training.