[News] DEMA Special 2006: Zeagle Systems Introduces Buoyancy Control Belt for Freedivers

[trux]

Originally Posted by Panos Lianos

This is not the only thing I ment.

Having equipment like this, allows a freediver to actually have more bottom time, as well as a quicker ascent.

Yes, of course, that's exactly what I wrote too, if you look at the post above yours.

Without proper instructions and training, the device can indeed lead to diving style that can put the diver in much more risk than normally. This has nothing to do with the acceptance of the BC belt - it is certainly a good idea if used wisely, but unfortunately using the device can lead to bad habits.

It looks like the time is coming for manufacturers of diving computers to come with versions that are able to calculate the CO2 saturation at repetitive apnea dives, watching the depth, time, ascent velocity, surface times, and previous scuba and free-dive, and warning the freediver in case he is exposed to the risk of bents.

[trux]

Originally Posted by Chad Carney

...Kirk Krack of Performance Freediving International and Emma Farrel, author of the new book "One Breath", were both interested in the Ascent BC Belt to assist in training and increase safety.
...
There will always be a small fringe that will push any technology to the edge.

I do not think that the problem is limited to those who will push the edge. The device will make the descent easier due to negative buoyancy, the stay at bottom longer (due to less energy spent in all phases - descent, horizontal move, and ascent), and will allow for faster ascent. I think that practically everyone who will get used to it, will increase his bottom times and possibly the depth too. That comes automatically - only few freedivers (and even less spearos) watch their depth and time, and control their stay by the measurement. Most of them rather surface, when they feel it necessary. This feeling will come later when using a BC device.

Additionally, many freedivers and spearos are not even aware that they are exposed to the danger of bents too, so they wouldn't have any reason for limiting their prolonged dives artificially.

I hope that Zeagle is aware of the increased risk for the users, and will enforce proper training, and some rules for limiting the danger. As I wrote, having a freediving deco computer would be nice, but I am afraid that the current mathematical models are not yet capable to handle it.

[Shallow russian]

Hi. All the safety concerns about increased bottom time and fast ascent are to be remembered in any type of freediving. No doubts that AScent BC can increase the danger dramatically. But on the other hand it can help a lot when safeting people doing deep or extremely deep dives. Specially nowadays, when students are progressing icredibly fast and instructors are pushing them even more. So as a thing for safety diver to wear it can be really useful. People are going deeper, they can blackout deeper also. With proper use you can safety people on a greater depth. Always remembering that this thing is not for deep repetitive dives.
Is BC already available to buy? Where is it possible to order it.

[Jon]

I still think that a small vest style would be better than a belt for safety sake. These things could be made in a a much more streamlined manner.

Zeagle already has something similar, the Rapid rsponse, that could be made much smaler and us a small 4 cuft cylinder instead of the 20-30 cuft bottle it now uses. You could also take off the regulator and make it even lighter.

I would like to see something along the lines of a self-inflating sailing life jacket with the bottle mounted between the shoulder blades on the back- much more streamlined and able to bring a diver back to the surface head's up.

Using it, the belt, to bring up an blacked out diver would encounter all the same problems as attaching your lanyard to your belt instead of your wrist when using a counter balance system- too much friction and not as efficient.


Jon

[josedesucre]

I totally agree with you Jon, but I believe the people at Zeagle were thinking in terms of improving performance, rather than safety, and because of that they were trying to make the BC belt as small and light as possible. Your idea, of course, would be an improvement on safety without hindering performance, I think.

[Chad Carney]

Originally Posted by Shallow russian

Hi. All the safety concerns about increased bottom time and fast ascent are to be remembered in any type of freediving. No doubts that AScent BC can increase the danger dramatically. But on the other hand it can help a lot when safeting people doing deep or extremely deep dives. Specially nowadays, when students are progressing icredibly fast and instructors are pushing them even more. So as a thing for safety diver to wear it can be really useful. People are going deeper, they can blackout deeper also. With proper use you can safety people on a greater depth. Always remembering that this thing is not for deep repetitive dives.
Is BC already available to buy? Where is it possible to order it.

SR,

I doubt you're really shallow!

The Ascent will be shipped to the first dealers this week. Size medium only at first. This will fit approximate waist sizes of 30" to 36", but suit thickness will make a difference. It centers on a 33", my size, and I can wear it with no suit or my 7mm full with hooded vest.

Dealers are completing their orders from the DEMA show all his week.
Some of the first will be Austin's in Miami www.austinsdiving.com , Divers Discount Florida in Ft Lauderdale www.diversdiscountflorida.com and Scuba Haven in Tampa www.scubahaven.com

Zeagle dealers set their own prices but the supply will be limited at first so I would not expect to see much discounting from the $599 MSRP.

Chad

[Chad Carney]

Guys,

Thanks again for your comments, I appreciate them.

The Ascents have been diving with less than half a dozen freedivers, because they were prototypes until just last week at DEMA, and also due to the patent application, busy schedules and weather. Two of us are very experienced, and the others were novices under my watch. None of us have extended our times and I'm the only diver to use it to 90', which is not close to my personal best depth. I used my first prototype in the spring of 2004 and have done hundreds of dives since then on the various new models.

We will offer training in it's safe use through our dealer network. Our BC owners manual will of course recommend proper freediving instruction and equipment.

Zeagle Systems is a company with more than 25 years of BC production experience, and I can assure you that they make high quality and safe equipment.

In the beginning Zeagle and other companies were chided for making back mounted weight integrated BCs... you know those BCs that will "float you on your face and kill you!" The other manufactures ditched the idea for jacket designs in the eary 80s, and only Zeagle stuck with it. Take a look around a few dives stores or manufacturer websites today and see what's popular.

It will be interesting to see how the Ascent is received. We believe freedivers, for the most part, are intelligent people and more concerned with increasing dive safety in large increments and only increasing performance to near where they are already diving. I don't like to dive near my limitations. The Ascent will allow me to reach depths and times close to my previous limitations by widening the margins substantially, IMHO.

Cheers and safe diving!

Chad

[Chad Carney]

Originally Posted by Jon

I still think that a small vest style would be better than a belt for safety sake. These things could be made in a a much more streamlined manner.

Jon, the Ascent is a belt that is filled with every dive. When you fill a vest they get very bulky around the chest area and exert positive buoyancy pressure on the chest. The belt however is below your diaphragm and has zero restiction on breathing. Your shoulders and chest are your widest body measurements, and the Ascent follows behind them, quite streamlined considering what it does. A vest would expand the widest area arround your chest even more.

The Zeagle Rapid Diver is quite bulky around the chest, even compared to our other BCs. It is designed for quick access and one size fits all, to benefit public safety divers. I have been diving with it.

Originally Posted by Jon

I would like to see something along the lines of a self-inflating sailing life jacket with the bottle mounted between the shoulder blades on the back- much more streamlined and able to bring a diver back to the surface head's up.

As I said earlier, the Ascent is not a rescue PFD. The coast guard finally approved inflatable PFDs, after much resistence, because people would not wear bulky fixed buoyancy PFDs. Freedivers are worse than boaters about wearing anything bulky.

It appears that the Ascent could be worn with the Freedive Safety Vest from the perameters that I have seen. The FSV is being designed to only be a rescue device, and hopefully never inflated, like auto safety bags. The photo of the inflated vest in their articles is quite restictive around the head, neck and chest, by design. The FSV is not a BC. I hope that the huge liability involved with making a diveable PFD does not sink their project.

Originally Posted by Jon

Using it, the belt, to bring up an blacked out diver would encounter all the same problems as attaching your lanyard to your belt instead of your wrist when using a counter balance system- too much friction and not as efficient.
Jon

Black out victims are 90% of the time on the surface. 9% from 15' to the surface so this is a mute point.

The Ascent's floatation is straight up with a conscious diver and is quite comfortable, even in 6' to 7' seas. Of course like all BCs it will not keep an unconscious diver's airway out of the water, but scuba BCs sure do add a lot of safety and convenience.

David Dauzat is the diver on the 2 videos on the website www.floridaskindiver.com. He's a Helldiver, and they are known for speaking their minds. I remember his words after his first dive, "I want one!"

He had wisely bailed out on a big kingfish he shot at about 40' last summer, and lost an expensive Riffe gun and reel, instead of his life! Had he been wearing an Ascent I doubt he would have lost anything.

All this speculation behind keyboards is frustrating to read.

I wish I could get you all out for a spin with the Ascent right away. IMHO opinion you would really enjoy diving with it.

Thanks!

Chad

[Jon]

"In the beginning they and other companies were chided for making back mounted weight integrated BCs... "

As you know Zeagle did not invent this system- Watergill/Seapro did. The At-Pac predates Zeagle by about a decade- 1972. I had one and sold it when I switched to a Zeagle. After too many failures with some of my Zeagles, mainly the ripcord release system, I switched to a straight backplate and wing set-up. BTW: Zeagle did repair, for free, the faulty ripcord system.

Now, onto freediving.

Zeagle could easily build something along the lines of an inflatable PFD with a small bottle attached behind the shoudler blades to make it even smaller than what you've already come up with. If you look at the picture I attached you see how small the vest is and no one says that you need to make it blow up into some huge life raft. I am a firm believer in not using some huge BC when a smaller one will do. A simple 18 pound wing is all that is needed for most scuba divers instead of some of these huge BC's that you see them wearing. If people, both scuba divers and freedivers, would pay a little more attention to how they are weighted, and not just try to compensate with their BC, they would be both more comfortable and safer. For a more indepth article on BC's I suggest checking out this article: http://www.caribinn.com/bcdwars.html

My point is you don't need something huge to be effective. I dove a drysuit for a LONG time with no BC at all- because I made sure I was properly weighted when doing so. Fi your going to make a vest it doens't need to be as large as one would use for scuba.

As other divers have found out when deploying their counter balance system, the diver ascends to the surface much faster when the lanyard is attached around the wrist and not the waist- no folding over and creating more drag in a problem situation. Having the flotation higher up on the body would allow a quicker ascent than around the middle- I DO understand your point about being trimmed out better underwater by moving the floatation down to the hips since the lungs already act like a built in BC.

You mentioned that most accidents happen in less than 15', the SWB zone, and most divers should be weighted to float in that zone already- unless they are spearing aspetto in some really shallow water and have on a ton of weight. For all other types of diving they should be weighted to float from 30', or deeper, so this becomes less pronounced.

I give you credit for trying to get the scuba guys to come up with anything to enhance our sport, but I'm not convincend that I need a $600 BC for freediving. That doesn't mean I don't carry any extra safety gear with me on deeper dives- as I always drag along my Spare Air when scootering the wrecks in case my DPV fails on me at depth.

Just so you don't think I am hammering Zeagle, because I am not, I have owned many of their BC's over the years. My wife owns one and I even named my 10 year old lab Zeagle. So here's a picture of my "favorite" Zeagle.

Jon

[Chad Carney]

Jon,

Zeagle is a good name for a water dog!

You and I agree about BC streamlining. I have previously worn scuba BCs with as low as 16 lbs of lift. Now with the Ascent it's about 12 lbs and it's the sleekest most retractable design yet.

You also know your dive history. I learned to scuba dive on a horse collar BC in early 1972, but demonstated the At Pac that same year at a boat show for my dive store. By 1977 I was teaching and selling them, and my present boss at Zeagle was the FL sales rep for Bill Walters Sr. at Watergill. He switched to Zeagle when they first got started, before Seapro folded.

The Ascent BC Belt is what it is for this year... and it works very well!

As you know, freedivers that black out are often highly trained and properly weighted to the correct neutral depth for the waters they are diving. They reach the surface the majority of the time, exhale and then sink, unless a buddy catches them. Their positive buoyancy is gone with their breath.

With an Ascent properly weighted the freediver has a lot of extra buoyancy in this same situation, enough that I have not been able to sink it, even with complete exhalation.

I hope a dealer in your area steps up and offers demos. I'm going to do that down here as an instructor. Know any dealers up there? We are opening some new accounts that are freediving only stores too.

Your description of scootering is the same that Kirk Krack described as one of the uses he foresaw with an Ascent onboard, but he also mentioned 280' in the same breath!

Take care!

Chad

[Jon]

I actually do know a Zeagle dealer- my father-in-law's dive shop has been carrying them for years. Since I moved out of town, to marry his daughter, I don't get to teach with him that much any more but still join in for the odd airplane or boat salvage.

He was at DEMA and I asked him to pick up some info for me. Do you guys have DEMO belts for your dealers- like DUI does? Maybe you should send one up next summer for the Freedive-A-Palooza I put on. that way you could get a bunch of people to try it out and I could send it back down to you after the weekends over with. It's not until next July so you have some time to mull it over.

I learned to dive with a horse collar in 1980 and switched to a back mount immediately after finishing my class. They make a huge difference when your diving dry. Everyone I dove with was pretty excited when Zeagle came out as it was a "new and improved" at-Pac that could pack smaller and travel easier with- no lead shot in the hard back pack to deal with. I got my instructor rating out at PADI college in 1984 and they gave me a hard time for diving an At-Pac, because they can kill ya', as everyone else was wearing horse collars or jackets at the time. I seemed to have made it through with out killing myself.

Good luck with you BC.

Jon

[Chad Carney]

Originally Posted by Jon

Do you guys have DEMO belts for your dealers? Jon

We will have demo belts available. Good dealers already do that with other Zeagle products.

In my retail days we demo'd everything, in the pool or open water.

The "Freedive-A-Palooza" sounds like a great idea!

Chad

[Chad Carney]

Happy New Year!

Thanks to YouTube this video is finally up.

YouTube - Ascent Freediving BC Belt

It was shot in West Palm Beach on March of 2006, with a prototype Ascent, which was actually too small for me, but it still worked fine.

The dive was to 60 feet, and without kicking from 50 feet to the surface. The over-pressure valve is purging about the last 15 feet of the way.

(Not kicking is not my normal ascent with or without the BC Belt, but I thought I'd see what it felt like.)

Chad

[cdavis]

Chad,

Nice Job! A very fun gadget from the looks of it.

One question. Are you guys aware of some of the very recent research that shows microbubbles in freedivers diving relatively shallow, like 80 ft?
I don't have it at my fingertips, maybe someone can supply a reference, but the suggestion coming out of that research was to take very long surface intervals, something like 8 minutes, when diving below 80 ft. I might have the numbers slightly off. Anyway, that info could be very relevant to any manual you put together.

Good luck with it

Connor

[Chad Carney]

Connor,

Yeah I've been hearing nitrogen concerns for freedivers more and more. We definitely recommend obtaining training in freediving.

I imagine it will take a good amount of time before all the doctors, deep freedivers and trainers get it all figured out.

Oceanic is reporting that their new freedive mode computers will have an algorithm for freediving. They even mention switching it for scuba as well. That's certainly a big mouthful to bite off.

The Ascent BC Belt has buoyancy assisting but also a certain amount of increased water resistance, so I have found the ascent speed to be rather normal when kicking lightly. The advantage is expending far less exertion, not speed. My first prototype had no over-pressure valve so I had to vent it manually on the way up. A freediver could still do that to slow or stop his ascent... as long as he had the lungs and time available.

Chad