[News] DEMA Special 2006: Zeagle Systems Introduces Buoyancy Control Belt for Freedivers

[NewsBot]

Zeagle Systems has developed a new inflatable belt for freedivers, one of the new products introduced here at the 2006 DEMA Show.


The patent-pending "Ascent" Buoyancy Control belt has a 4-cubic-foot aluminum air cylinder and Zeagle's ...



This is an news discussion thread for discussing the following DeeperBlue.net News item: Click here for original DeeperBlue.net News Item

[Chad Carney]

For photos, underwater video and more information on the Zeagle Ascent BC Belt click on this link: http://www.floridaskindiver.com/

[Stephan Whelan]

Good to finally meet you at the show Chad!

[trux]

Thanks, Chad, I already looked at it before, but why there is no information on Zeagle's own website? And why no price yet?

Otherwise, it looks like a quite interesting concept, although I wonder how many immersions it can really handle in real life conditions. And although it is not really a safety device like the vest that is in development too, since it won't bring you face up in case of SWB, it is still certainly very interesting. I also like the possibility to attach a regulator for short shallow dives - smart idea.

[Chad Carney]

Good to meet you as well Stephan!

trux and everyone,

Zeagle Systems will have information on the website as soon as possible, but please realize that prior to the DEMA Show we are all maxed out trying to bring everything together at last minute. We have yet to unload the DEMA booth from our trucks, and are taking today off... a first for quite a while.

Presently I am the only freediver at Zeagle, although founder and president, Dennis Bulin, has tried the Ascent BC Belt in shallow water and has set a goal to become a freediver.

I don't pull the strings on the Zeagle website, so I set up http://www.floridaskindiver.com/ so that I could put up photos, video and information instantly. I'll be putting up much more on an almost daily basis now that we have debuted the finished product.

The suggested retail price is $599 for everything except weights, including our new compact cross-over filler. It is available in size medium right away, with large and small to follow in about a month or so.

I have been diving many prototypes since January with a 6 cu ft cylinder. A few months later we got the compact 4 cu ft cylinders, and with one of them I get about 12 dives before needing a refill. Depth and suit thickness will vary the results, and so will the diver's experience with achieving neutral buoyancy.

Besides the DB article, (thank you very much John Liang and Stepan Whelan), the Ascent has been featured in Spearfishing Magazine's new fall issue http://www.spearfishingmagazine.com/ and I was also interviewed on video by Tony Grogan SM's publisher. Scuba Diving Magazine TV came by for Zeagle interviews and also a Russian magazine, which I'll have to look up for the title.

To be sure this is a BC, not a PFD like the proposed FreeDive Safety Vest. And like all BCs, it will not keep a diver's airway out of the water. With normal use, floatation is provided by the automatic expansion of air, (Boyle's Law), after the diver becomes neutral at depth and begins to ascend. During most dives we have noticed the BC to be full and over-pressurizing at around a depth of 15 feet on ascent, and almost always at the surface. This matches the zone where black outs occur 99% of the time, according to Kirk Krack from PFI. With proper weighting of the BC, I have not been able to sink it once filled, even with extreme exhalation. There is a high probability that a black out victim wearing an Ascent BC Belt will remain at the surface, so this could have a profound difference in the outcome.

A freediver using the Ascent does not have to expend nearly the amount of energy that a CW freediver does, to battle positive buoyancy when descending and negative buoyancy when leveling off or ascending, and that may be the most important benefit.

Chad

[Panos Lianos]

"Variable weight" comes to mind.

If this product is ever used by deep speafishers, then I can only imagine the number of people who will get bent.

[Chad Carney]

Panos,

During the developement of the Ascent BC Belt it also made me remember my limited experience with variable ballast diving. Just a few times diving over-weighted to free my anchor, then ditching the weight belt onto the hook. (Although I wear about the same weight as on my normal weight belt. The Ascent is only about 1.5 lbs more negative than a standard weight belt.)

Thank you for your comment. I'd like to ask if you believe that today's freedivers in your area, would possibly be more reckless if they have a technology that could increase depth and time potential?

Almost 20 years ago when many scuba divers switched to 25% and 50% larger air tanks, we wondered how many might stay down deep longer and get into trouble. Largely it did not happen, as dive training and monitoring equipment became more sophisticated at the same time.

I see the same thing happening with freediving equipment and training today, and I think that the divers I know have a greater awareness and connectivity, brought about by the internet that will also help insure the same result.

Chad

[Jon]

Chad,

I think that you forgot about the invention of the "shell" drysuits about 25 years ago- or maybe the water was so warm by you it didn't make a difference.

In the northern half of the country divers suddenly found themselves able to stay in the water much longer than normal becuase they didn't freeze out and suck their tanks dry. DCS went up shortly there after as a result- at least according to the diving Doc's in this area that were putting on the DAN seminars at the time. In the past the divers were spared injury, of not knowing how to properly work a dive table, by simply freezing out and not pushing theselves. Once easier to use drysuits came along the rate went up.


When mixed gases were first introduced, without the proper training to go along with them, we had people getting bent, pretty badly, up here by doing some really stupid stuff- how about wearing a set of double independents with air in one tank and trimix in the other.

Any time a new tool comes along and allows you to go deeper/longer people will push their limits/luck with it. Freediving is no different.

I am interested in how many dives you can get out of a 4, or 6, cuft. tank. Also wondering why you didn't design it as more of a vest than a belt? I know legs are heavier and this trims you out better on the bottom; however, a small vest, like those found on fancy sail boats these days, would be both streamlined and allow for head out of the water positioning when the diver hit the surface.

Just my $0.02

Jon

[trux]

Well, if it works as claimed, then the technology allows the diver going deeper than normally, and there will be certainly individuals who will use it for going deeper than they would normally go.

But what Panos meant were decompression bents due to the ascent quicker than normally. This risk concerns freedivers who do frequent deep dives and it was discussed here often. Effects of freediving bents are known to Polynesian natives under the name Taravana since centuries, and documented in modern times since 1958. Several high-profile freedivers suffered serious injury due to DCS - for example it is a very likely cause of the latest accident of Carlos Coste, and we shouldn't also forget the accident of Benjamim Franz in 2002. Many other freedivers experienced lighter DCS incidents during training or competitions.

Some freedivers, like for example Eric Fattah, regulate their ascent speed and do also short decompression stop. Eric wrote about it many times here and suggested ascent regulations to AIDA too.

Although I imagine that it is not impossible (and hopefully not too difficult) to control the ascent speed with the BC belt (just as one can do it with scuba BC's), if the freediver is not properly trained and uses the BC belt as a simple lift, he may expose himself to serious additional risk of DCS.

I think you should work well on a training manual and a legal disclaimer warning about all different possible risks involved with using the BC belt.

[Chad Carney]

Originally Posted by Chad Carney

I have been diving many prototypes since January with a 6 cu ft cylinder. A few months later we got the compact 4 cu ft cylinders, and with one of them I get about 12 dives before needing a refill. Depth and suit thickness will vary the results, and so will the diver's experience with achieving neutral buoyancy.

I wore a 7mm with a hood when I was trying out the BC belts in winter and early spring with the 6 cu ft bottle. I got about 12 to 15 dives before emptying one. Later with the 4 cu ft bottle and my 3mm suit or shorty, I still got about the same 12 to 15 dives. Most of my dives were 45' to 70' but sometimes included 1 or 2 to 90' or shallower around 30'. Usually by the time I finished the tank I was ready to move the boat or take a break for something to drink, etc.

trux,

Thanks for the links to those threads. I had read about Carlos.

A training manual is in the works at this time. Another need for training with the product will be for freedivers that are not scuba certified, as a form of certification will be necessary in order to get a full sized tank filled, to use as a bank for the BC belt(s). Many of the freedivers I met at the DEMA show this week have never used scuba. Conversely there were also many scuba divers and especially dealers who are interested but have little to no training in freediving.

It is extremely easy to vent the air from the BC and reduce buoyancy, with either hand, and besides water pressure the bladder is quite retractable. My first prototype, before Zeagle got involved, had no over-pressure valve and I had to vent it often to keep it from bursting.

I have a D3 computer of course, but it lacks an ascent rate indicator. Did I not read that the new Liquivision F1 will have a ascent rate indicator? While kicking lightly upon starting to ascend or ceasing to kick and just gliding to the surface, it feels much like the same speed I usually kick up without the Ascent Belt, just without all the effort.

Jon,

As usual I only have second hand knowledge about water under mid 50s temps. I give you guys a lot of credit for getting wet!

We have no desire to claim PFD capability or accept that liability. The early horse collar BCs didn't fill that bill either. Lack of pressure on the chest and steamlining are of key importance, and the Ascent has none of the former and little of the latter. What extra drag it does have is easily overcome by the buoyancy. We only just got the final production bladder with baffles for the size medium BC belt and I was told it had 11.5 lbs of lift in freshwater. I've been diving one almost the same with hand made bladder seams.

One other reason for the belt design came from my earlier stealthy scuba BC idea. I discarded it for about 15 years until modifying it for freediving in late 2003 and early 2004. The present Ascent BC also works great for scuba when hooked up to a full size tank mounted on a separate tank pack. It's really cool to be able to lift and carry them separately. Just connect a standard length QD hose run under your left arm to the belt inflator, and sport a hoseless air integrated dive computer on your wrist. See the pic with my 20 lbs gag grouper from 145' here: http://www.floridaskindiver.com/ (We don't recommend this for anyone other than very advanced scuba divers.)

I appreciate the comments, please keep them coming.

Chad

[josedesucre]

I don't know about Carlos Coste, Trux. Every report I've seen of his accident, including his own, says that his ascent was slower than it should have been, and suggests that the likely reason for the bent was that he spent too much time under 100 meters. Although, of course, nobody knows for sure.
Regarding this bc belt, you are certainly right, no doubt that some will use it to go deeper that they should. But, ... that's human nature. Some already do it without any artificial device.

[trux]

Yes, of course, Jose, but that's exactly what we are speaking here about. That's what is called bents or DCS. And if he staid so long down there and additionally had a belt that would shoot him up faster in the last meters, he would finish even worse than he did.

EDIT - addendum:
That's the principle of DCS - the longer you stay in depth, the more CO2 is dissolved in your blood, and the slower you have to go up. So if you use a BC device that allows you longer and/or deeper dives due to less energy consumed for the descent, buyoancy control, and the ascent, and additionally it allows you to ascent faster, then of course the risk of a decompression accident rises considerably.

[Panos Lianos]

Originally Posted by trux

But what Panos meant were decompression bents due to the ascent quicker than normally.

This is not the only thing I ment.

Having equipment like this, allows a freediver to actually have more bottom time, as well as a quicker ascent.

In my opinion, bottom time (in deep dives) is even more important than ascent rate. In the case of Carlos Coste, the dive profile shows a total bottom time of around 3 minutes bellow 100 meters. So if Carlos could come up faster but slow down during the last 40 meters, things MIGHT have been different. A fast ascent rate makes the situation worse in the last 15 meters, but the main reason we get bent is the accumulation of nitrogen in the first place. And this accumulation happens much faster at depth. In other words, it's the whole dive profile that matters, not only the ascent rate.

And, in my opinion, a device like this, allows for bad profiles. Not a bad as diving with a scooter perhaps, but still bad. And in any case, worst that constant weight freediving.

[Panos Lianos]

Originally Posted by Chad Carney

Thank you for your comment. I'd like to ask if you believe that today's freedivers in your area, would possibly be more reckless if they have a technology that could increase depth and time potential?

Actually I wouldn't call them "reckless", because to be characterized like this, implies that they would be "aware" of the danger and choose to ignore it. But yes, I do believe they would be far more exposed to danger, a danger they don't know much about. Don't forget, most of these people are after fish. They often don't think about their dive profile, but are more focused on the fish and how to catch them. But some are reckless too (lots of people die each year because they freedive and spearfish alone, even knowing how dangerous it is). And this only makes things worst.

[Chad Carney]

At DEMA I talked with many freedivers involved in leading the way with education, safety and medical research for the sport.

Kirk Krack of Performance Freediving International and Emma Farrell, author of the new book "One Breath", were both interested in the Ascent BC Belt to assist in training and increase safety.

Kirk has trained over 1,500 freedivers and Emma taught 300 just last year.

I think a diver's perspective depends on education.

There will always be a small fringe that will push any technology to the edge.

My buddy Art Pinder told me about the skin diving gear they used back in the early forties. I quoted him and a line from a book he gave me in Spearfishing Magazine this month. It read, Swim fins became available around 1940 but were initially met with resistance, wrote Hope Root in his 1955 book “Spearfishing and Skindiving on the Florida Reefs.” Root recalled “The beach boys (life guards) would not use them at first because they did not work with the old frog kick. They were leg-killers.” Art Pinder said “We swam barefoot and scissors kicked underwater until the early forties, but we learned the flutter kick was better with swim fins.” Root wrote that within a year the arguments against swim fins were forgotten.

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Chad