Psychology of freediving: feedback needed!

[Mickyfish]

Hi!
I'm a former marine bio and now a writer/photographer from France. Since I began freediving, one and a half years ago, the psychology and "philosophy" of freediving has been a fascinating research topic. For me, freediving as been a therapy, actually saving me from a depression. Since then, I've been wondering how the practice of freediving can actually change your worldview, perceptions, your life. I'm posting this thread because I would like to have your feedback on that subject!
Eventually, I will write up an article or little essay about it, along with more "academic" research (symbolism of the Ocean for mankind etc.). Everything I get from you will, of course, remain anonymous when it will come to the article!

You can either post replies here or if you have more "intimate" things to say,or accounts you don't wanna throw out in the open, you can use the following email: apneapsychology@aliceadsl.fr or send me a PM.

Here are some of the questions I would like answered, but feel free to just tell me things you are feeling and/or want to share (there might be more soon!):

Has freediving positively affected your life?
How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
What do you feel when you're getting to your limits?
What do you feel when you're "down there"?
How does it feel to come back up?

Some questions that will sound a bit "strange" :
Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?

If some of you have overcome, like me, some problems with the practice of freediving, I would be very happy to hear what you have to say!!

I'm looking forward to read you!

Best regards from rainy France!

Micky

I have already found some interesting things in the 2 following threads:

Here and here

[trux]

Well, there are many more threads to this topic in DB, including another one with practically identical name: http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediv...lp-needed.html
(EDIT: argh, althouthg psychology is discussed in that thread too, I did not notice it is physiology, not psychology, in the title!)

Other related ones:
http://forums.deeperblue.net/general...reediving.html
http://forums.deeperblue.net/general...reediving.html
http://forums.deeperblue.net/general...hypoxemia.html

EDIT: Also this one may be of interest for you: http://forums.deeperblue.net/general...-comments.html

[Mickyfish]

Thanks Trux! Strange I didn't find those?? Must be the blonde in me...

[fcallagy]

Hi Micky
An interesting thread and thanks for bringing it up

Has freediving positively affected your life?
Yes i started a course when i turned 30 just to try something different and have after decided to lose weight get fitter etc which i have done since.

How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
Not sure if it influenced my perception of life or death has possibly made me more spiritual as you naturally have to slow things down when training and relax


What do you feel when you're getting to your limits?

Feel like I am experiancing something that most people don't and am challenging my body and mind more than i ever did.

What do you feel when you're "down there"?

Peace relaxation awe wonder

How does it feel to come back up?

Often feel like i don't want to and have to make myself surface


Some questions that will sound a bit "strange" :
Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?

Yes obviously any medical ones and should only be training underclose supervision with if it was possible to enforce that they could not train alone it should be done

Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?

Difficult one like i said sometimes i dont want to come back up and i enjoy my life very much but if your tendancies were different you may just decide not to come back

[trux]

• Has freediving positively affected your life?
  Sure, but you can tell that practically about any other sport (and many other activities) you do with passion
  .
• How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
  Probably not a lot. I do not really think about death when diving, and do not relate deth with diving, although I've been drowning twice in my life, and hence was close to death when in water. The first one was actually a funny story - I was three or four years old. We played a naval battle with my brother on inflatable mattresses on a small river. At a moment the mattress turned over, and I fell to the bottom (just about 30cm of water), but for some unknown reason I did not have the idea to get up. I was just laying on my back, watching bubbles of air escaping from my mouth to the surface and was actually rather amazed. Don't know why my brother did not help me, but finally a man that was somewhere close by, hurried to us and pulled me out. I remember that afterward it was not pleasant at all, the lungs were burning, but I actually have rather "pleasant" memories of the actual "drowning". It definitely did not stop me of enjoying water, diving and swimming as a kid or adult. The other accident was at 18 during my paramilitary scuba training, but it did not harm my relation to water or diving at all either.
  .
• What do you feel when you're getting to your limits?
  When I am outdoors, I try not to get there. Especially when alone, then not even remotely. Otherwise the struggle under water may bring some level of self-preservation fear or even panic, but since I am aware they are actually beneficial (sign of oxygen saving mode), it is not something unpleasant either.
  .
• What do you feel when you're "down there"?
  I'd tell that the most remarkable feeling for me is the immediate disconnection from the outer world. Like reincarnation or another life.
  .
• How does it feel to come back up?
  There are of course physiological effects, and psychology is strongly bind to them too, so surfacing certainly brings different immediate feelings and body reactions, but from the distant psychological point of view, the surfacing is not too important to me.
  .
• Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
  Certainly yes, but that can be told about almost any other sport or activity. When in depressions or other psychological troubles, getting focus onto something else than yourself is quite important and therapeutic. However, the water environment, relaxation, the physical effort, the controlled breathing, hypoxia, and quick extreme changes of metabolism, heart rate and blood pressure may also have big influence on the psychics. Water based therapies are not unknown at curing many psychological disorders (i.e. autism), but this a topic that should be better studied in medical documentation. And quite likely a lot of research still needs to be done in this field.
  .
• Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?
  I think that yes. Definitely better than rock climbing, para-gliding, shooting, or many other sports where a sudden impulsive action can have irreversible consequences. When freediving, even if you dive down with the decision to die, you still can change your mind at almost any point. And very likely you will, because the physiological self-preservation reflex may override even quite strong determination. But well, if you are firmly determined to die, you will do it anyway even without being in water, so I would not fear to freedive because of a suicidal mood. More likely the above mentioned psychological and physiological effects will change your mood quickly (unless you, for example break your $300 fin, or spear no fish all day long at all (if a spearo) ). On the other hand, there are many freedivers with suicidal behavior who do not even realize it - but here I do not mean suicidal depression, but rather unwise people - that's entirely different topic, and there are certainly many more fatalities among those divers than among the depressed ones. Those people should really better stay in safe distance from water!

[Rogert]

Has freediving positively affected your life?
yes, its kept me fit and i noticed im more self aware now.
. How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
its made me more aware of how easily death can happen and exactly how much death is around us.
. What do you feel when you're getting to your limits?
I feel a new achievement for myself and i am doing myself good as in im exploring new limits and possibly expanding them
. What do you feel when you're "down there"?
I feel like i am one with nature totally closed off to the outside world.
. How does it feel to come back up?
This is when i feel i can explore new boundaries because i dont feel like going up.
. Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
i dont know that much about psychological problems. sorry
. Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?
well im going to second trux with this one, If u do go diving with the decision to die u could still think of something u have to live for and surface before its too late.

[wes]

Has freediving positively affected your life?
Yes - It has completed a circle for me of diving as a child, fitness, yoga, meditation now diving as an adult.
. How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
The power and control I have learned over my breath now extends to many other parts of my life, I have knowing and certainty in my other actions. This gives a greater responsibility to me for how I live my life and that I have great control over when and how I will die
. What do you feel when you're getting to your limits?
Two ways, when ever I am truly pushing my limits I feel raw fear. When I am exploring new depths and techniques within my new found limits I feel great certainty, confidence and serenity.
. What do you feel when you're "down there"?
Nothing, and that is the point.
How does it feel to come back up?
Alive and aware of now.
. Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
Yes, very much so, by learning how to control breathing we learn how to control ourselves, this practice is at the core of healing for people with depression and anxiety (in my opinion). I believe it is lack of control and lack of connection allows for suicide and depression.
Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion? Yes I think it would be very beneficial. I think the fear that they might want to drown and this would be dangerous is not correct.

[deep thinker]

Has freediving positively affected your life?
Id say yes. It teaches you dicipline and control over your mental and physical abilitys. It made me much calmer and teaches you respect, respect for life, the people around you and nature. It also requires a healthy lifestyle which is always a positive influence
How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
Comes back to the respect issue, you respect life in general and you realise death is a real possibility. But it still doesnt have a negative influence on your abilitys and goals as a diver.
What do you feel when you're getting to your limits?
If its on a deep dive satisfaction that your pushing your body to a next level. Sometimes though I do feel like Ive overstayed my welcome and that it really is time to breathe now, a slight panic I guess.
What do you feel when you're "down there"?
Its like your becoming part of another world, utter relaxation, wonder and a sense of wellbeing and oneness you dont get when your sitting on the beach watching the waves, infact you find yourself wondering what it looks like under the water.
How does it feel to come back up?
After the first dive of the day, to get back down as soon as possible, a urge to be able to stay down longer and experience more but as a days diving progresses I just keep the feeling of relaxation and wonder at a world more complex than our own.
Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
To a certain extent yes, they should atleast still be positively functional and aware of their bodies limitations. In case of drug addictions and so on Id definately agree that it could be positive on the respect issue and that you sometimes start feeling slight euphoria after a long successfull breathhold. Very much the same affect as a drug would have. And for depression and anxiety patients it could be positive in a way that you are forced to be in control and yet relaxed at the same time so I cant see why it cant be positive.
Infact freediving and spearfishing gave me the positive energy and will to find a way to deal with and slow down a too hectic lifestyle at too young a age.
Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?
Again I cant see why not, like trux said the minds self preservation powers could overcome that urge to try and drown yourself when you know you could get out at any moment. Also the techniques and lifestyle freediving represents could have a positive influence on the persons self acessment and the view he has about the world in general.

Cool thread by the way

[Fondueset]

My psychology behaves like oil; I leave it on the surface.

[cigarlung]

micky i will keep it simple i can not type or spell positive effect of freediving is that it is a powerful antidepressant and a healthy escape from the day to day strains of life. life death question i beleive healthy activities add quality to our lifes and perhaps we can be as a result more loving generous careing people death question i always think safety first no thankyou drowning have seen over years not from freediving few cold water drownings lots of other death expected and unexpected plenty of horrible human suffering from disease or starveing what do feel when push to my limmits euphoria stoped doing this after learning about shallow water black outs thanks to good people at deeper blue 3 years ago discovered this site when doing lots of diving in the phillippines. some times when i am down there the feeling is like this where i belong and feel my best at perhaps even like being back in the womb however please note i am not a new age kinda guy rather i am roman catholic. addiction question people like feeling good or perhaps bad i like apneic diving hits the pleasure zones in my brain causeing me to feel good with out any bad behaviors or guilt remorse shame or self hatred that a alcohol high caused me many many times years ago i think the major help would come from the wanting to improve breath holds and depths in what i would call the lesser addictions smoking ,overeating junk food, tv , or need for comfort. suicidial thoughts or ideas is person actively pyschotic hallucinateing or delusional or has disassoctive identity disorder probally best to dive in the local swimming pool. lots people think from time to time about killing themselves probally to do with are selfish selfcentered nature no worries there all part of mans nature concrete rehearsed plans of suicide ruminated over day in and day out for long periods of time like swallowing a pistol or hanging or gassing probally best for those folks to dive in the local public pool under life gaurds supervision. thanks micky it will interesting to read other peoples thoughts on this.

[Mickyfish]

Many thanks to those who took the time to respond! It is very interesting to read your thoughts!
I hope there will be more feedback.
See ya!
Best Regards from (very rainy) France
Micky

[Apnea_Addict]

Hi Micky,

looks like you ended up here as well ;-) (which is good)


Has freediving positively affected your life?

I had to think about this for a while - but altogther there has to be an absolute "yes". Freediving has opened the door to a whole new world of experiences: some just around the corner, some in places far away.

One of those experiences is that no matter where you go - with other freedivers there is always the feeling of belonging to the same "tribe". The things you experience when holding your breath under water are similar regardless of your social status, your religous beliefs..and so on.

On a very personal level: When I met my girlfriend we went (free-) diving together...and now we are getting married


How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?

For me: freediving has made think about these issues a little more. Normally that is pushed out of the way in the daily life. But when freediving you are aware of the danger - that does not mean being afraid - an awareness that is not there in another day-to-day situation.

What do you feel when you're "down there"?

Usually a feeling of calmness and focus - on occasions a feeling of "elation".

On a bad dive there a be lonliness and something like "get me out of here".

How does it feel to come back up?

It feels good to be able to move freely - especially at the beginning that was quite a change for me coming from scuba diving.

On deeper dives there can also be the need to stay calm and in focus if you get closer to the limit.

Some questions that will sound a bit "strange" :
Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?

The idea is interesting - it may have a positive effect if you place that within something like a therapy. You would need some sort of extra counselling in addition to the freediving course. The best teachers I had were aware of how much is going on in your head even if you are not getting into this with the burder of a psychological problem. But that may not always be the case.

all the best to you - in Deutschland regnet es auch

Holger

[Mickyfish]

Hallo Holger! Lange nix von dir gehört!
getting married? Congrats!(Hum...are you sure you wanna do that to yourself?? Joking, joking... )

Well, it's time that I give my personal answers to my own questions here...

Has freediving positively affected your life?
A Big YES on that one!! I found myself again I must say. I feel more aware of my body and the relaxation I can feel while freediving is amazing! Plus, I am meeting many wonderful people in the freediving scene (but no freediving boyfriend so far Lucky you, Holger!!)

How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
Holding one's breath is something that most people are afraid of, because breath is life. Stopping to breathe and not dying is therefore a very interesting experience, in which you feel kind of "in between"... Life seems more precious in a way after that...

What do you feel when you're "down there"?
I still have to get over the "tightness" I feel in the throat and the contractions which are quite strong for me, but when I do an easy dive and stay a bit down there, I'm always in awe, fascinated by small details, like feeling the water movements on my skin, watching the light effects when it's sunny, hearing the strange sounds some fish can make... In fact, I have an awareness of what is around me that is much stronger than in any other situation.

How does it feel to come back up?
I would say "orgasmic"...
I love that moment when the water becomes warmer, when the sunlight comes back, when you feel floating towards the surface... I would say that I'm in no danger to stay down there because coming back feels so bloody good!!

Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
Definitely! And I know what I'm talking about!! But these people should have reached the turning point where they see a light at the end of the tunnel. I truly believe that freediving could be a very valuable therapy for people already drawn to the ocean. It would be fascinating to work out something in that direction with specialists...
Freediving is not just a sport, it's, in my opinion and as I feel it, an activity where you are face to face with yourself, yours fears, your doubts... Overcoming some difficulties step by step as you practice can build up your self-confidence. Also, it is probably one of the best activities to learn how to "let go", which you can use in your daily life as well.
Self-confidence and knowing how to "let go" are two things that many people with psychological problems don't have anymore...

Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?
That's quite a tough one for me: I never thought about suicide and it's hard to know how those people would feel about freediving...
Many sports considered "dangerous" or "extreme" are sometimes labelled "suicidal" by people who don't practice them... And I heard some divers say "if I have a lethal disease or something like that, I'll just go down and stay..."
I would like to talk with people who have suicidal ideas in order to have a more detailed opinion about that topic.


Anyway, I'm busy thinking, reading and writing stuff down on that subject.Thanks again for your feedback! It's very valuable for my research!
I'll probably throw some other thoughts into this thread soon...

Cheers
Micky

[LessIsMore]

Hi Micky,

interesting thread you opened here.

Has freediving positively affected your life?
Definitely yes. Freediving is like an all-inclusive package. You get a wonderful sport, meet nice people, discover the largest natural habitat on earth, hopefully travel to beautiful places and experience the probably most 'breathtaking' feelings ever.

How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
I didn't spend much on thinking about life and death before I started freediving, probably because my mind is/was more technical oriented. When I started freediving this greatly changed. Due to the fact that the time you're able to spend underwater is limited you have to enjoy every second down there. The time of our life is also limited, but in this case you don't know your 'personal record'. I'm now trying to get something positive out of every day of my time-limited life, even those where you feel like 'Mr. Nothinggoesright'.

What do you feel when you're "down there"?
Silence. I'm loving the moments down there because the silence around me makes me becoming more and more calm inside.

How does it feel to come back up?
You want to know how it feels when you're going up again, when the water around you is becoming warmer, the sun is shining on you through the wavy surface and you're watching this gorgeous light show? Great! For me this moment of coming back to life again is the best of freediving.

Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?
Why not? If they have suicide ideas their life probably couldn't get worse by trying it. In my opinion freediving is not only a beautiful sport but also a way of life and therefore it may hopefully give them new vitality.

I'm sorry that I couldn't answer all your questions today but maybe the remaining ones will follow in a few days.

Best regards
LessIsMore

[Kars]

Has freediving positively affected your life?
Yes. Before I fell into freediving I use to live in the rationell, living according to my enviroment's ideas and fears. Freediving learned me to feel, and lateron helped to get know my spirit. Appart from this it also helped to concentrate, highten my senses and awareness bigtime. From that I learned that my spirit was not able of doing evil, and learned to trust it fully and it's now my 'captain'. This reapreaciation of the self, my individuality is still ongoing, as I now understand that it has been, and is to this day being suppresed by social pressures, state pressures. Indeed freediving was for me the way to myselve, selflove, love for life, love for beauty, a drastically alterd worldview.

How has freediving influenced your perception of life/death?
I used to have the view that life was just above worthless, with freediving that has totally reversed in 3 years time.

What do you feel when you're getting to your limits?
Well that's when I try for a record, and that's usually a bit of a struggle, though in the end of the dive I usually know if I'm going to make it or not.
Usually there are hardly any feelings appart from the usual need for air and contractions, and pure concentraion focussing on technical, talking to myself to swim beautyfull and to relax etc.

What do you feel when you're "down there"?
Depents on the type of dive. On a record dive it's more like a focus to do every technical thing right and in time. On a recreational dive it's much different. With every meter going down I'm further away from the physical world, as everything material is stripped fading away. Everything slows down and is purified as ego and conditioning is absent and one simply is just spirit floating in space. It makes me feel very much connected with the world, and witnessing life in such naked beauty is very motivating.

How does it feel to come back up?
Again depents on the type of dive. Upon turning in the deep, I'm still in the concentration modus, focussing on technique, efficiency etc. Nearing the surface entering I may feel very happy knowing I'll make it, but at the same time remembering the surface protocall technique.
On a recreational dive, When I turn it's because my mentel clock signals 'well it's time to go back now' and I start my acent getting into a nice rhythm, smile on my face eyes closed, dancing, gliding and gradually speeding up due to the change in boilancy. Note that on the way down, when I'm in the groove, I often close my eyes. I relax better, and I have a look inside.
Breaking the surface after about two minutes, the glide and rhythm feeling is still very much there, and I enjoy it for minutes, hours, days, weeks and even now when remembering it. I also feel a great sense of gratitude for haven been given this great gift and everyone who helped me in one way or another. The sensations and realisations described in the awser on question 1 also apply here as they were relived for another time.

Some questions that will sound a bit "strange" :
Do you think that the practice of freediving could help some people with psychological problems or addictions and if yes, with what restrictions?
Many people above have al awserd this positively, and I agree. Addictions may be also a matter of heratage, as some are simply very sensetive to it. I would rule out participating in competitions and official record breaking. The goal would be to learn and know and understand thyself. Competitions does not work well, and it's probably a cause of many psychological difficulties and frustrations. Revaluation of the individual was my salvation. And freediving's quality lies partially in the power of silence, the absence of distractions, and totally independent allone with no one to judge. Just you and the sea.

Should people with suicide ideas try freediving? Why or why not, in your opinion?

People with suicide ideas should not do anything, any 'should' pisses them off, and reaffirms their current views. What those people need I feel is, an appreciation of their life. And that they could come from different things, but usually are strong experiences like near death. In short I think they need to find their spiritual self and start listening to the soft voice within and obaying it, no matter how useless it seems. Freedving has strong meditative qualities, and can help the individual to calm down and start listening to his/her inner spirit. (not the ego).

If some of you have overcome, like me, some problems with the practice of freediving, I would be very happy to hear what you have to say!!

Well it's in almost every line above.

//

Side comment:
I've come to the view that psychology does not seek to help people to become strong selfrespecting individuals, but rather to 'help' people into being able to conform to state, group(s), culture and religeon. The Freudian evolutionary view of everything, including humans, just being a ball of moldeble shapeble of molecules controlled by chemicals and impulses from the material world is in my mind rather misleading, and even criminal. Criminal because it robs many of their sense of purpose and comfort they obtain from the inner wisdom that there is something more than the physical world, a higher authority than the state. A state who, increasingly, is posing itselve as the God, using all knowledge and means availeble to increase it's army, burocrats, and to enslave mankind further.

Read Plato's 'The Republic' and understand the Elite's religeon and techniques today at work.
Happily there was Carl Jung who counterd Freud's social Darwinistic atheistic phychology.

Micky I whish you the best of knowledge, widest range of experiences, the strongest, most flexible of minds and offcause many more beautifull dives.

Kars

Cutting Through the Matrix with Alan Watt Clearing the rubbish from the road to reality