Freediving vs. The Earth

[trux]

Originally Posted by gaiadiver

Wait I don't understand. My local abortion clinic uses oil heating and the daycare center bus runs on gasoline. The hospital and the ambulances all use oil. So isnt killing for oil like really killing for abortion clinics and the daycare center and the hospital? Even my ex boyfriend who works for PETA uses a gasoline van to save the animals so he needs oil, so killing for oil is saving these animals I think oil is definitely worth to kill for. absolutely.

A second I almost thought you were serious. However, I have to tell I find this kind of humor rather perverse.

[Fondueset]

Originally Posted by gaiadiver

Wait I don't understand. My local abortion clinic uses oil heating and the daycare center bus runs on gasoline. The hospital and the ambulances all use oil. So isnt killing for oil like really killing for abortion clinics and the daycare center and the hospital? Even my ex boyfriend who works for PETA uses a gasoline van to save the animals so he needs oil, so killing for oil is saving these animals I think oil is definitely worth to kill for. absolutely.

Perhaps you should find a more evolved board upon which to share such encompassing logic.

[LastOneOut]

Kill fish not people. Oil for fish not people.

[gaiadiver]

Originally Posted by trux

A second I almost thought you were serious. However, I have to tell I find this kind of humor rather perverse.

Okay if you are against a womans right to choose just say so. At least have the curage to say it. Your against hosptals have the curage to say so.

[LastOneOut]

I think this whole thread should be deleted, as it has nothing to do with the forum - gaia is being lame.

[adolphin]

Originally Posted by LastOneOut

I think this whole thread should be deleted, as it has nothing to do with the forum - gaia is being lame.

I agree with LastOneOut, although this topic is very interesting, very important as well (what trux and kars are discussing I mean) but it's more of a combination of environmental and political issues (more environmental ofcourse) so it needs another specialized forum for it (unless DB opens a category for general discussions which I don't mind at all by the way) .. Oh my God! I have lots of points to say here, but am I not saying that I agree with LastOneOut ?!!! .. ..
then trux, after the last comment of gaiadiver, do you still think she was spelling out a bad joke ?!

[naiad]

As I said in another thread...

I think having a few controversial debates is a good thing, as it makes people show their true colours. If someone can't have a debate without insulting others and using sarcasm, I won't answer their posts or give them rep in the future. I don't mind others having different views from me as long as they express them politely and with respect for others.

Gaiadiver, what is your point exactly? This is a freediving forum, and I can see the point of having a debate about the environmental impact of freediving, but not about killing for oil, a woman's right to choose and PETA.

[Kars]

Well Naiad you bring up an intresting question, and I'm likewise intrested in Gaiadiver's awser to it.

Merci!

Kars

[trux]

I am against silencing uncomfortable or even provocative opinions and against deleting threads or posts (with the exception of removing blatant spam or profanity). Better than censoring them is trying to argue in a cultivate way (or stopping to answer if it is apparent there is no way to keep the discussion healthy).

Originally Posted by adolphin

then trux, after the last comment of gaiadiver, do you still think she was spelling out a bad joke ?!

Yes, I still do. Even more now. Most of you probably did not see the original post of Gaiadiver that started this thread. It was quite long (about 20-30 lines) and written in exactly the same style as her later posts. Already when seeing it appeared I though it was a bad joke, but within a few minutes after posting it then disappeared, so I assumed Gaiadiver realized it was tasteless joking and decided to remove it.

If it is not bad joking, then the only other possibility is that Gaiadiver suffers from some exotic mental disability - in that case I apologize for my comments, but it would be better if Gaiadiver informed us about it - we would be better able to understand the odd logic, and would try to answer her posts more patiently.

EDIT: frankly told, I smell Paul Kotik's type of enigmatic humour behind Gaiadiver's posts, and strongly suspect it's in fact himself. It would be interesting to compare the IP addresses of Gaiadiver and Paul.

[Jon]

Gaia's posts are making less sense all the time. I don't know if she's trying to make a point, is a Kotik sock puppet trying to liven things up a bit, or just lost herself in her own argument.

I do know that in her original post, which she then deleted, she mentioned how divers ruin the Earth by flying all around the wolrd and, thus, polluting the air. This my be a valid point except in another thread she mentions a new job where she will get to do just that- hypocracy?

Her original point related to freediving as a polluting activity. I would argue that, as far as diving goes, it is far LESS polluting than other types- techincal diving being the formost polluter for the vast resources it uses up on every single dive. A freediver might buy a wetsuit and fins, but he, or she, can use that simple gear to explore for years. Compare that to a typical trimix diver who uses up a part of the world's decreasing helium supply every time they dive - along with hundreds of pounds of other gear that can cost thousands of dollars. One reason I prefer freediving to tech diving is that it uses so many fewer resources every time you dive- which also make sit much cheaper.

Ther has been some call to delete this thread altogether, but there's some intersting information in here and I would hate to see it go. What might be a better tactic is to just delete Gaia's posts and leave the thread intact.

Jon

[trux]

Yes, the original Gaiadiver's starting post contained the concern about traveling, and also many other claims, but it was written in the same way and with the same logic as her later posts about killing for oil to save abortion clinics. It was quite apparent that she (alias Paul Kotik) was not concerned at all about the ecology, but oppositely and quite evidently wanted to ridicule the entire ecology movement and concerns about industrial pollution (exactly like Paul already has done openly in other threads).

[Fondueset]

Something is bothering her. It has nothing to do with us or what she is saying and nothing is served by encouraging it.
This is not a political form, nor is it a forum for passive aggressive bullshit.

[naiad]

Originally Posted by trux

I am against silencing uncomfortable or even provocative opinions and against deleting threads or posts (with the exception of removing blatant spam or profanity). Better than censoring them is trying to argue in a cultivate way (or stopping to answer if it is apparent there is no way to keep the discussion healthy).

I agree. I have been unhappy to see threads locked in the past because of controversial discussions. Of course, if certain posts in a thread are offensive, they should be removed, but I don't think a thread about global warming, ethics of hunting etc. should be locked. I feel that is taking away freedom of speech, and we shouldn't all have to pay because there are always one or two users who can't participate in a debate without insulting others and expressing extremist views.

[Kars]

I find this tread, and the people on this forum for that matter rather civilised.

And don't see why anyone should refrain him/herself from questioning anything. In the end everything can be considerd political. What I know for certain is that talking and listening is a way towards knowledge, understanding and solutions.

Gaiadiver, please step into the light and explain us what you ment or wanted to question, please?

Thanks,

Kars

[fogish]

After a lot of thought I have come to the conclusion that my lifestyle is much more destructive than freediving, and that if I made just a few changes to it it would more than offset the effect my freediving has on the environment. Stop using my computer, Drive to the store every other week instead of every week, train my wife to turn off the lights when she leaves an area of the house... the list goes on.

To address Gaiadiver's posts: In all of the other forums I have been to we would call her a troll. Someone who goes around to certain threads or an entire forum and makes statements specifically to incite and/or upset people. I have looked at all of the statements she has made on the forum, and read through the threads they were made in, and they seem to be less about joining the discussion and more about inciting people or disruption.

There is a fine line between making inciting statements and making statements that people may not like but shed light on or draw their attention to a subject. If that is her goal I think she does it poorly.

I also think we should keep the thread open and available since there is a lot of information here and several subjects that we can continue to discuss. Maybe move it to an area other than the General Freediving?