New STA record attempt pending

[efattah]

The use of EPO could easily give you a 2-minute gain in static, regardless of lung volume. In this case, the 'rumours' came from a couple of people who have retired entirely from the sport.

[shoutatthesky]

Everyone is saying that unless AIDA is there and the athlete does a doping test, the record is 'worthless.'

Eric - that is not what EVERYONE is saying.

What you say about some apneists allegedly using EPO is interesting. It seems that no one really agrees on the accuracy of current testing methods - at least from what research I have read. If we can't accurately test for it then we either have to give the athlete the benefit of the doubt or keep them under 24 hour surveilance for a couple of weeks before their attempt. What would you suggest is the solution?

[jome]

Well, in Renens in 2005 I think the static medalists were tested 2 or 3 days after the performance! I'm not sure how it is handled nowadays, but I would not call that doping control...

In a real doping control, the athlete never leaves the eyes of the controller after the performance before he has pissed in a cup. Not for one bleeding second. They certainly do not go out for 2 days doing what ever they please.

And as Eric points out, EPO cannot be detected after a few days and the new human based one not even then. A blood test might give some info, but it could also just lead to false accusations since a lot of talented divers will have pretty thick blood via completely natural means. Of course one way would be to set a limit for example for hb, as they do in crosscountry skiing for example. But what would the limit be so that it would be fair? I really don't like that as a solution.

Which isn't to say I don't value doping control - I think it is vital! All I'm saying that doing it for just a show doesn't have much value. Doping will certainly make it's way to freediving if it hasn't already.

I'm also not making any accusation against Mifsud - good luck to him on his attempt. Certainly it cannot be considered and AIDA world record, and currently AIDA is pretty much the only organization with any real credibility in that area. Maybe that will change, maybe not. I don't think any organization can just claim that they have a monopoly on world records - it just comes down to credibility...

[Marwan]

you know thats a god point, but what im about to say is not really professional. some athletes in my opinion are more credible than others. to give an example fom the past, there was some doubt in pipins credibility by some people, but no so much for say mayol or umberto... i think that for the more "credible divers", if they do an attempt that was witnessed by others (no necessarily judges of a ratified organisation, AIDA or otherwise), to them they achieved a record, i would imagine that MIfsud may consider himself in that sort of category, an when he claims he held the WR in dyN, he probably didnt mean to be arrogant. Of curse all that could be crap, im really inexperienced here, but i just gt out of the technical side of things and attempted to analyze peoples behaviour in general...
just my opinion

[wolleneugebauer]

Don`t forget, the situation in AIDA is completely changed. Our board is not Sebastian Nagel and Dieter Baumann anymore (they where the persons in charge for the mistakes(?). The rules are different also (no f***** LMC-video-decision anymore!)

AIDA is`n`t perfect, but I can`t see the reasons for an attempt without AIDA.
The only way to stop the rumours is an official attempt with AIDA (incl. dopingtest).
Every other way will be a shame!

[TheDude]

We have a world championship going on right now in Maribor. Every performance made there will have my greatest respect and credibility because it is done under the eyes of fans, rivals, judges. Done according to the same rules and conditions for everyone.

I have also great respect for Stephane Mifsud (especially because he is a bifiner as I am ). But what he is doing with this STA attempt, taking place same time as the WC, is behaving like a 10 year old boy. I cannot understand why he does not go to Maribor and gain the respect than belongs to him. Instead of that, he is doing a performance that is pretty much worthless in the freediving world.

[pehtran]

hm... nice to came across this discusion... as I was just starting to take this sport and my competitions a tad to seriously. Now with all this bullshiting about different organisations and clashes among them and doping tests and who is ethical and who is not.... I am just starting to see that this is becoming a dirty sport like any other... and freediviers are becoming obsesed: not by sheer pleasure of freediving but by the speculations of who is on drugs, who is cheating and under which organisation a certain diver did the performance. It is a shame. See you in Maribor or anywhere alse where there is water and nice people!
And good luck to Mifsud just so that I stick to the subject.
Miha

[fcallagy]

Miha,
Don't get disheartened by the above competitions are only one part of this fantatsic sport as you seem to know only too well. What I love about it is that despite all of the above I will still visit the ocean and experiance its beauty and silence,peace etc. Comps are only a small part of this sport imho but they do make for interesting discussions and are great pushing boundries. As far as i know in other sports like triathlon athletics etc you have to let the doping control body know where you will be at all times for weeks before the race/comp they can literally land at your door and do a test and if you are not there or cant be there within an hour or so there are penaltys. If you miss one or two its a big deal and you may not be allowed to compete. I know there was an issue with triathlon world champ Tim Don at one stage in that it took some hours to appear or he was at another location. I think it got sorted out in the end but and heres the kicker, a doping test currently at E500 is gonna cost a whole lot more if the athlethe has to be followed or surveyed for a period of time beforehand. I am sure this cost would be outside the remit of most competitors without major major sponsership. I think at this stage we have to go on their word at the end of the day its about pushing the human body not seeing what we can do with boosters etc. Also where do supplements iron/vitamins etc and performance enhancers crossover where is that line?
On a side note someone on a radio show here muted the idea of having a druuged olympics let all competitors take whatever they want before hand should be a laugh.

[jome]

Originally Posted by pehtran

I am just starting to see that this is becoming a dirty sport like any other... and freediviers are becoming obsesed: not by sheer pleasure of freediving but by the speculations of who is on drugs, who is cheating and under which organisation a certain diver did the performance.

Sadly, that is just inevitable in any seriously competitive sport...The harder the competition gets, the stronger the emotions...In the future AIDA will probably move to measuring performances in cm and tenths of a second. Getting to the top will mean starting training from childhood and working on training really hard 2 times a day for a decade - and even not then in all cases can you reach the top. None of this "I started diving last year and now I'm a finalist in the WC"-stuff. Imagine the emotions then?

The good news is, we still have the option of diving for our selves and not minding the sillyness of competitive freediving. In a way I guess that is what Mifsud must feel like he's doing. He just wants to see how far he can go and have someone witness it. I believe in AIDA and believe that the work AIDA does is good and important. However, I also believe that people always have the freedom to make their own choices. Stephane may well claim his performance is a world records - he has every right. The point is, which claim is more credible in the eyes of the public? I guess currently the state is that "the biggest one". In the eyes of freedivers, of course AIDA, but that is such a minority still...The good that AIDA has brought to it is that even Stephane will have to generally follow similar protocols in his attempt to be taken seriously, even if he does not want AIDA there - his performance and the criteria for it will definitely be matched against AIDA versions. So in that sense the "standardization" work has worked rather well...AIDA is not "absolute", or any other federation in any other sport. It is just the most experienced and credible one when it comes to judging freediving performances.

Freediving has not been "ruined" - only competitive freediving will unfortunately get uglier and uglier as years progress. It is still a relatively nice sport. But in, say 10 years, it will be completely different story...Sadly I don't see any way around it.

[Haydn]

I think Guiness are rightly hailed as the governing body for validation of World Records. And I believe I am right in saying that where they are unable to validate a record due to inexperience in the event, they authorise each sports governing body to act on their behalf. This means (and I may be wrong), but I thought Aida had been authorised by Guiness to act for them. If this is so, then Aida are the only organisation that Guiness will accept as World Record judges in our sport.

If I am right, Aida should extend the hand of friendship to any dis-allusioned athlete. Aida should be pro active in resolving these issues. Perhaps it would be a start if Aida made contact with Guiness to check this out.

[OceanMan]

Some people seem to forget that THERE WILL BE AIDA JUDGES for Mifsud's attempt. It will be a national record, not a world record. That's all. There will be a doping test too.
He did the same thing for his 213m dynamic national record which was at the time beyond the world record mark (212m).
And why Mifsud does not do his attempt during the WC ?? And what about Martin Stepanek ? William Turbridge ? Mandy-Rae ? Tom Sietas ? Most records have been set out of official competition.

The only problem to me is Mifsud claiming the world record while it's a national record, like he did for his 213m dynamic record (at the time the german national record was 215m).

[wolleneugebauer]

Originally Posted by OceanMan

It will be a national record, not a world record. .

without any posters like this?:

[OceanMan]

No, I think there will be a poster like this unfortunately... That's what I blame Mifsud for.

[Haydn]

Thats exactly what I disagree with, not the poster, but the fact that Aida can judge the greatest distance in the world and only call it a national record. Its a disgrace, its the swim that counts, not red tape that demands other things to happen which have nothing to do with the swim.

I think Stephane is more accurate to claim a world record than Aida would be in pretending his distance was only a national record when it is obvious to all, that he was metres/seconds etc greater than the existing world record.

[glennv]

Originally Posted by OceanMan

The only problem to me is Mifsud claiming the world record while it's a national record, like he did for his 213m dynamic record (at the time the german national record was 215m).

In that case he had no rights whatsoever to claim the world record. Only a national record. AIDA or non AIDA.