CMAS World Championships

[trux]

Well, I do not know if it is really only two countries where CMAS has that level of power, but even if France and Italy were the only ones, it is already quite bad - in these two countries there are very likely more organized freedivers than in all the rest of the world combined. The sad result effect of the CMAS policies is that you do not see as much of Italian or French athletes on AIDA's ranking lists as those countries could provide (virtually no Italians at all, and relatively few French).

And no, we do not get any grants from CMAS/FFESSM or IOC, but the fact that you won't get pool time or insurance without being a federation member is already sufficient for the discrimination - no grants needed for that.

[JPPLAY]

There is a split in France now with some of the top French divers competing in the FIPSA World Championship Spearfishing competition instead of CMAS. I don't know if they formed another organization or if the French spearfisherman are trying to get away from CMAS.

[chrismar]

Originally Posted by JPPLAY

There is a split in France now with some of the top French divers competing in the FIPSA World Championship Spearfishing competition instead of CMAS. I don't know if they formed another organization or if the French spearfisherman are trying to get away from CMAS.

I believe those that competed in the FIPSA WC were banned from all CMAS events (all sports) for a year. Not so good.

[JPPLAY]

Originally Posted by chrismar

I believe those that competed in the FIPSA WC were banned from all CMAS events (all sports) for a year. Not so good.

I don't know how long the ban was but I do know the Canadians that competed were banned from CMAS events. I assumed it was just spearfishing events didn't think they would ban someone from all the events. I don't know what to say.

[ADR]

I'd feel quite good about a CMAS ban. How do I apply for one?

[wizards]

Its easy just be president of one of their commissions and dont agree with what they do.

[shoutatthesky]

What? CMAS has the power to stop you gaining entrance to an aquatic facility in France if you are not one of their members or a member of another organisation? Does the chief of CMAS have a funny little moustache too?

If this is the case it is a sad situation. In New Zealand if I was turned away from a public pool for non-membership of a particular club I would be able to take them to the Human Rights Commission and have the pool owners tried for breaching my human rights.
I take it from your comments Trux that the solution in your country would be a federal prosecution for monopolistic behaviour? If so then this action needs to be instigated with haste!

[chrismar]

Originally Posted by shoutatthesky

What? CMAS has the power to stop you gaining entrance to an aquatic facility in France if you are not one of their members or a member of another organisation? Does the chief of CMAS have a funny little moustache too?

If this is the case it is a sad situation. In New Zealand if I was turned away from a public pool for non-membership of a particular club I would be able to take them to the Human Rights Commission and have the pool owners tried for breaching my human rights.
I take it from your comments Trux that the solution in your country would be a federal prosecution for monopolistic behaviour? If so then this action needs to be instigated with haste!

Not quite. To train, they need to be affiliated. It's passed off as a safety thing and there's little that you can do about it. The human rights commission wouldn't find in your favour, not in Europe and not here in NZ.

[shoutatthesky]

No facility in NZ has the right to deny me ENTRY based on which club I am affiliated with. They have the right to deny me entry if they deem my activities, or the manner in which they are conducted in to be dangerous.

"To train, they need to be affiliated." affiliated with who? My small group are not affiliated with anyone and we are granted entry for freediving activities based on us following their safety rules.

[chrismar]

Originally Posted by shoutatthesky

No facility in NZ has the right to deny me ENTRY based on which club I am affiliated with. They have the right to deny me entry if they deem my activities, or the manner in which they are conducted in to be dangerous.

"To train, they need to be affiliated." affiliated with who? My small group are not affiliated with anyone and we are granted entry for freediving activities based on us following their safety rules.

They can deny you entry, as I said, based on safety concerns. Actually, they won't deny entry, just prevent you from doing any breath-hold training. NZ is very relaxed compared with the rest of the world, yet there are still places that prevent us from training. Kilbernie is reluctant at best, yet I'll be there tonight playing underwater hockey. They permit UWH because of agreements between them and UWHNZ/NZUA/CMAS, same as the guys in Europe being allowed to train because of agreements with CMAS.

[shoutatthesky]

CMAS have a connection with underwater hockey maybe but lets just hope they stay away from freediving in NZ! Their nonsensical rules have no place here!

[trux]

Originally Posted by shoutatthesky

No facility in NZ has the right to deny me ENTRY based on which club I am affiliated with...

Nobody will deny you entry if you want to go to a swimming pool privately. However, there are hundreds of diverse clubs in each city who request lanes and time in public swimming pool. The City Hall will simply ignore any requests from clubs that are not organized under some state approved federation. I am afraid that there is little you could complain about in this case - such behaviour is pretty well understandlable and pretty standard almost everywhere (where public pools exist). Now, they will certainly not deny you the entry if you come in public hours (alone or with your buddies), but most pools forbid use of fins and masks in public hours, and most of them also forbid swimming underwater. So the training in such conditions may be rather difficult, not speaking about the legal responsibility and insurance cover in case of an incident - it it becomes clear you were training apnea in violation of pool restriction, it may easily turn rather ugly.

[shoutatthesky]

I see your point guys. I guess I am lucky that there are no such restrictions placed on us.
As an organised group there are only 3 of us with another who joins in when in town. We explain what the purpose of our visits are and have no trouble booking lanes. There has never been any question from pool staff about affiliation with clubs. Neither has there ever been any objection to the use of fins or swimming underwater at any facility I have visited in NZ.
Just to clarify - I am talking about FREEDIVING, not underwater hockey.

[trux]

Originally Posted by shoutatthesky

I see your point guys. I guess I am lucky that there are no such restrictions placed on us.

I just want to add that I find the regulations correct and rather positive (when not abused). And the French FFESSM (branch of CMAS) unlike the international body, is also quite in good relations with AIDA - they even have an agreement about accepting each others licences (freedivers, judges, instructors), and you won't have any problems in local competitions if you participated at an AIDA event. On the other hand, their way of education differs considerably from AIDA's point of view and is rather focused on the security and the recreational element than on the sportive / competitive aspect. That's in pure freediving - in other UW sports it may be much worse - for example, as I already wrote earlier, it is true they banned UW rugby, so there is very little chance for any UW rugby team in France to get pool time.