83 Cnf - New Wr

[Mullins]

Chris, I think you're misinterpreting Will's argument. He has a much larger stake in the validity and respectability of the CNF record than in which athlete holds it, and it is this validity he is trying to protect. Martin holding the record is probably to Will's advantage as there is more to be gained from a two-horse race.

Edit: Oops, he got in before me...

[pehtran]

Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht

Will you give us a [censored] break?! You think it was an easy decision to make? You really think that the opinions expressed in here during all this bull[censored] has been ignored???

Chris, your tone is somewhat inapropriate and I can not see why you feel obligated to reply to posts like mine. You made a decision and there is no point in convencing the convinced. I am sorry that I made you that angry and frustrated by just expressing my opinion that has no influence whatsoever in this case. Especialy since the fact that it wasn't an easy decision has absolutely no relevance at all.

[Will]

Chris, I have already informed you that your presumptions as to my motives are offensive. This is no longer a reasoned discourse, so I will withdraw.

[atomichaggis]

Originally Posted by Will

No!! This has nothing to do with me, and it would still be unfair on the athlete to follow.
There is only one solution, which is to follow the rules, rules which encompass this very situation. Anything else is equivocal and will damage the prestige of an AIDA World Record.
It is only because I plan to do further WR attempts, and therefore value the prestige of an AIDA World Record title, that I am wasting so much time trying to defend it against the idle rulings of an outdated DC.

Fair enough.

[immerlustig]

relax, chill out, calm down


maybe it's a good idea for some people that before posting take a day off to gather your thoughts and then post them.



roland

[BennyB]

Agreed, tempers are fraying so please step back and take a breath everyone before posting.

We'd like see this topic stay open and discussed in a productive manner rather than degrading into an argumentative slanging match, which will inevitably be closed down by DB Mentors.

Cheers,
Ben

[TRITON]

I really dont understand why Martin was allowed to dive without a tag in the first place.
If all of the divers that have made WR attempts dove WITH a tag, Martin had to do the same and nobody would have doubted the validity of the record itself.
The mistake has been made, let them share the record , but in future events the tag SHOULD BE MANDATORY.

[Adrian]

Or..disqualify Martin's dive, and then reimburse him (or his sponsor) for all the expenses he incurred in training/setting up the dive/travel logistics etc. Nobody wins here, everybody loses and AIDA assumes responsibility to Martin for it's errors. But at least the playing field is kept level for future records.

[bam bam]

Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht

The judges review the Canadian's video three times. Several stop watches clocks the SP done at times like '14.3', '14.5', '14.6'. She made it, barely, we can't DQ the performance without being pricks.

Chris as you said "she made it". so it was close, but that isn't the point the SP say within 15sec and it was. you up held the rule that the SP had to be done within 15sec. That was a good call, but this...

How is it relavent to your agument?

[BennyB]

3 questions... i'm surprised no-one has brought this up yet.

1) Have the AIDA rules that relate to collecting a tag in a CNF WR attempt changed since April 2005? ie. did you need a tag then?

2) Did Martin retrieve a tag in April 2005 in his 80m world record?

3) Should we have had this debate 2 years ago?

The video is available on the PFI website.

[Nitas]

In 2005 tags in record attempts were not obligatory. The appendix which equaled the rules for record attempts with the rules for competitions (i.e. made tags obligatory for record attempts) was issued 16.06.2006

[CEngelbrecht]

I'm gonna have to take a break from this thread for the rest of the weekend, 'cause it's eating the better of me.

Will, consider taking a break from it too, then get back and work with it all over again. If you still wind up seeing things the same way, make use of your right to appeal the DC decision before the deadline October 12th. But please, dig deep.

[DSV]

Hey Guys,

I agree that things are getting a bit out of hand, but Will keeps coming up with really valid points.

Will, please constest the DC.

Now I have a few questions.

When was the rule instated that the athlete has to bring up a tag during CNF & FI? (I don't remember ever seeing this up for vote)(this is a ridiculous rule to start with, bottom video and depth gauge should be enough)

When can we vote on issues with the AIDA Board? i.e. once a year, twice a year...(Obviously following the proper channels)

How do we get a vote started with the AIDA Board about the rule of bringing up a tag during any discipline, in both compitions and WR attempts, that the athlete has to solely use their hands as propulsion? i.e. CNF & FI.

Anyone? Anyone?

Let get this resolved!

[Semi]

Originally Posted by Adrian

Or..disqualify Martin's dive, and then reimburse him (or his sponsor) for all the expenses he incurred in training/setting up the dive/travel logistics etc. Nobody wins here, everybody loses and AIDA assumes responsibility to Martin for it's errors. But at least the playing field is kept level for future records.

Certainly this would be best option but im afraid AIDA doesnt have funds to do that.. Im sure others would know better than me but these attemps must be hell expensive (safety divers, judges, travelling, etc etc. )

One side of the coin is fact that you need MONEY for WR attempts and training on proffesional level. If you are world champion or WR holder you get sponsors much easier. And your sponsor WANTS world best performance because thats way how they could get best media attention. Maybe thats one of reasons why people in this case are angry. I would be angry too if someone in my work get more money for doing work other way he should. Im not telling that someone is greedy not at all its simple way how our world works
On other side rules if you exactly dont follow rules than your record should not be valid. But what if even then judges tell you that everything is ok? This is catch 22 situation at the end there will always be one unhappy side..
Really hard decision.. fair would be if both freedivers would share WR (marketing wise it would work both way) and Stepanek should get back money which he paid for judges and anti-doping test. This would be fair for both sides.. But would require show of good will to really solve problem.
For future attempts AIDA rules should be crystal clear about requirments..

PS Sorry for my not so good engrish

[glennv]

One things for sure besides al the rediculous and ununderstadible unfounded and unexplained decissions beeing made bij the DC (have any of you not DC members seen any reasonable explanation for this decission , besides evasive manouvres to avoid the obvious solution...), if it would have happened to Will he would have been the first to denounce his WR (of course not without cursing the hell out of the judges).

Where is Martin ??? Sure he does not know this issue exists ..... and Martians have also just landed.
Not even a single comment anywhere. Boehoe