Tom Sietas Static Wr Attempt

[Kars]

Originally Posted by pim

I also know athletes who thank their safety by shaking hands BEFORE they got the card.....(after doing Nat. record)


Grtz Pim

Pim I do not see the relevance here, please explain.

[ADR]

Originally Posted by wolleneugebauer

stupid rules - unfair & silly.


for me it is a new world record!
congratulations tom.

I competely disagree in your focus on the rules in these comments.

A saftey person/event organiser has no business being anywhere near an athlete let alone in the water during a WR attempt without being very clear on the rules. The athlete also has an obligation to ensure HIS/HER TEAM is aware of the rules and obligations.

It will be great to see the learning for all involved out of this and will make Tom's next 10min+ WR even sweeter - GO Tom

[pehtran]

I just wonder if it could have been done on purpose? We just discused it with colegues a few weeks ago and it semed a reasonable move for someone who wants to prove he can hold it over 10 mins but wants also to keep the window open for future record attempts. It would have been completly reasonable and justyfied. Congratulations, Tom, so impresive!
Miha

[island_sands]

Originally Posted by pehtran

I just wonder if it could have been done on purpose? We just discused it with colegues a few weeks ago and it semed a reasonable move for someone who wants to prove he can hold it over 10 mins but wants also to keep the window open for future record attempts. It would have been completly reasonable and justyfied. Congratulations, Tom, so impresive!
Miha

Uf! That's quite an accusation there mate. Are you suggesting sabotage? Where you actually present at the comp? Fair dinkum if you were, however... still.. that's a little accusatory.

2c.

[pehtran]

Well, since I do not have a problem with what anybody else does or thinks as long as it does not affect others (as in this case) I most certainly would not see any moral dilemas in such a move. But it is not an accusation but rather a specculation. I can see how someone could feel offended by this but I certainly do not - the result is not tarnished in my eyes in any way.
But it is very possible that Tom Sietas will prove me wrong today. If it was a mistake from the safty I would have been very surrprised that such a mistake can still happen in an event like that.
Miha

[osusim]

I think AIDA and/or organizers of World Record attempts should compensate to athletes the results own faults by providing new free attempt. An insurance contract can be the easiest way.
Also AIDA rules should provide extension of WR attempt’s period (e.g. 1-2 extra days) in case of mistake made by judges or safeties. These makes position of athlete during WR attempts more secure and help to avoid of negative public effect which AIDA have got sometimes in a past.

[Carmen Cremades]

I cross my fingers, Tom. You´re gonna do that better that yesterday. And if somebody touch you, please... bounch him on the middle of his face, where the nose is.

[trux]

Originally Posted by pehtran

I just wonder if it could have been done on purpose?

Well, the same thing happened to Tom during the AIDA World Championship 2005 in Vancouver. In that time the STA record was just above 8 min, but Tom pulled incredible 9:24. Celebrating friends touched him too and he was disqualified. It was also speculated that it was intentional, and that Tom did it on purpose.

The theory was supported by the fact that Tom, although able to pull 10 min statics in training, never repeated the attempt, and did not even try attacking the 9 min barrier again until it was broken by Herbert last year. Although he did many STA records since that time, he always added just few seconds to the last record.

I am not sure though that it was done on purpose this time. But if Tom repeated the attempt just afterward, and does another one today or tomorrow, then it was likely not intentional this time.

[pim]

Originally Posted by trux

Well, the same thing happened to Tom during the AIDA World Championship 2005 in Vancouver. In that time the STA record was just above 8 min, but Tom pulled incredible 9:24. Celebrating friends touched him too and he was disqualified. It was also speculated that it was intentional, and that Tom did it on purpose.

The theory was supported by the fact that Tom, although able to pull 10 min statics in training, never repeated the attempt, and did not even try attacking the 9 min barrier again until it was broken by Herbert last year. Although he did many STA records since that time, he always added just few seconds to the last record.

I am not sure though that it was done on purpose this time. But if Tom repeated the attempt just afterward, and does another one today or tomorrow, then it was likely not intentional this time.

Vancouver was 2004 not 2005 and I witnessed his 9:24 there (as did many others ) and it was amazing in those days and even is today!!!!!

World Records STA;
11-06-2004 Tom Sietas 8:47 (edit; so before Worlds in Vancouver)
november 2004 Tom Sietas 8:56 (during RMC in Wiesbaden but no WR-status for this competition in those days)
12-12-2004 Tom Sietas 8:58
30-08-2006 Tom Sietas 9:00
then
13-12-2006 Herbert Nitsch 9:04

Tom attacked 9:00 himself and not to get the record back from Herbert; Herbert did his 9:04 after the Worlds in 2006. In the time of Vancouver (2004) Tom's coach did not give Tom the time during his static, that was the reason why he missed the 9:00 in Eindhoven by 2s ..... although I (as organizer of that competition) was glad with his reached performance.


Grtz Pim

[Stavros]

Originally Posted by osusim

I think AIDA and/or organizers of World Record attempts should compensate to athletes the results own faults by providing new free attempt. An insurance contract can be the easiest way.
Also AIDA rules should provide extension of WR attempt’s period (e.g. 1-2 extra days) in case of mistake made by judges or safeties. These makes position of athlete during WR attempts more secure and help to avoid of negative public effect which AIDA have got sometimes in a past.

WOW WOW WOW

you guys are loosing track of the reality here....

Fact (Because I was there): The fact that Tom's coach/organizer disqualified Tom's performance was an accident due to lack of experience on the part of the coach coupled with the excitement of witnessing such a great performance. Both the organizers and Tom were shocked when they heard that the record was not valid... trust me if you saw their faces you would know this was not staged.

Fact: AIDA is in no way responsible for organizational errors during record attempts... That is exclusively the responsibility of the Athlete and the organizer they select to set up and run their event. AIDA is there just to judge and validate the performance through the AIDA judges... (Safety divers are the responsibility of the organizers not the Judges')

And please remember - the organizers normally set up a WR attempt as a commercial venture (ie to make money) ... So why exactly should AIDA compensate the athlete if the organizer messes things up?... Please read the facts before going on a wild goose chase...


And to go back to providing news instead of speculations (which we already have plenty of):

Toms attempt today was not successful. The first try ended up in a 8:57 hold - the subsequent attempt was cut short a few minutes after it started. A third attempt took place at approximately 16:00 which I just found out ended at 8:17...(the judges returned home just now)

Tom will most likely make another attempt tomorrow

Cheers
SK

PS. I think being supportive of Tom's effort is more important at this stage than wild unbased speculations as Tom might be reading these lines...

GO TOM GO :-)

[rhillier]

Rules should be in place for valid reasons... I cannot see why someone, who after completing their surface protocol would be disqualified because someone touched him while awaiting the judges performance. From my vantage point, this is just silly and makes the sport look less credible.

[azapa]

in my very limited experience of comps (I've been to exactly ONE) the judges are really bummed when they have to red card an athlete on these trivialities.
On the other hand, (devils advocate) a really in tune coach could bring an athlete on the verge of samba/airway drop/bo back around with a well placed touch or tap?

[osusim]

Originally Posted by Stavros

WOW WOW WOW

Stavros, I'm talking about general WR rules. Just a year ago was "unsuccessful" CNF attempt and AIDA somehow responsible for this one.

[Stavros]

Guys rules are there for a reason.
The touching rule has a very clear purpose for being there - if the athlete was allowed to be touched for example to be congratulated where do you draw the line from the coach touching / tapping the athlete to bring them back during a bad samba? or slightly supporting them so their airways do not sink... You might say its the judges decision on when a touch is bad and when it is not.... the problem there is that that depends on the human element (judge) and would leave a LOT of room for mistakes.
(Those of you who have any experience with freediving competitions know this to be the case)

So a general rule not allowing the athlete to be touched at all until the judges have validated the performance is crystal clear and easy to enforce - JUST DON'T TOUCH THE ATHLETE UNTIL THE PERFORMANCE ENDS...


It is easy, simple and clear for everyone....

The problem in this case was human error (coach making a mistake) not a problem with the rules ...

And as I said before... I think it would be better at this point to be supportive of Tom's effort rather than go into a meaningless discussion on how a rule should be changed to suit our needs at the moment without any other justification.

Tom informed me last night that he would take today off to rest and try again on Saturday.

Cheers Stavros

PS Osusim - if you were aware of the facts of the two events you would see that these are two completely different cases.

[SEDATE]

Efharisto poli stavros for givin us ''fresh''' infos