Question on bouyancy and mucus

[Mullins]

Originally Posted by m2b

I took a couple more full inhale dives and I'm still noticing the same thing. I'm hitting bouyancy that I normally wouldn't be hitting under full inhale. I'm still not sure what was going on.

Your buoyancy is going to be affected by three things:
- how thick your suit is (suits contain gas)
- how full your lungs are (gas)
- how much ballast you're carrying

So if your buoyancy is different, one of the above things must have changed (assuming you're not moving between salt and freshwater). Choose the depth you want to be neutral and adjust your weighting for your chosen configuration until you get it right. Then you're ready to focus on all the other things like technique, streamlining, equalisation.

It really sounds like you need to get some experience inhale diving before you start trying FRC. If you're still learning about buoyancy, equalising etc then it's really not the time to be throwing exhale diving into the mix as it's a specialist technique and requires you to already have a good grasp of the above.

If you're bailing out when you start sinking or if you can't see the bottom this is understandable and is probably because the whole thing is so new and there are so many things you don't have under control. Like weighting! Hitting thermoclines is introducing yet another sensation to an experience that's already overloading you. If this sounds condescending it's not meant to, I've been there. Get the basic technical things sorted one by one and you'll become steadily more comfortable with depth, cold, lack of visual reference points etc.

[m2b]

Bubbleless, does he continue to use it all the time as preventative medicine or does he not need to use it anymore?

The strange thing Mullins is I actually feel WAY more comfortable on exhale dives than I do on inhale dives, both on the initial breathe up and the dive itself. I don't make the stupid mistakes on exhale that I do on inhale dives. It's really creepy the difference I noticed between the two.

I was out early yesterday before the rain moved in. As I headed out into the water I was immediately expecting bouyancy issues on the first dive or two and I wasn't surprised. I left the weight belt off entirely and figured I would just dive without any weight whatsoever. Since the suit had dried out overnight I figured I would find myself getting less bouyant after the first dive or two. For a change I wasn't caught off guard.

I headed out for 12 foot deep water and took two or three exhale dives. They were the most comfortable dives I've had yet. The first dive had me ever so slightly bouyant at the bottom but by the second dive I was right at neutral.

The educational moment happend when I did something I never have did on inhale dives. On each of the exhale dives yesterday I found myself taking off the nose clip at the bottom instead of halfway back to the surface when I notice the pressure building. Normally on inhale dives I have always waited to take the nose clip off. Yesterday I was taking it off at the bottom before I ever started to surface. It was almost like it was programmed routine. Only thing is I have never did it like that before. I had been setting at neutral for a couple of seconds. I took off the nose clip and saw a small bubble exit out my nose. All of a sudden I started sinking. I was really surprised to see how much of a difference a little bubble of air like that can make in your bouyancy.

The breathe up in between was short compared to what I normally have for breathe up on inhale dives.

Typically dive sessions in the past I could be in the water for 40-45 minutes, 5 minutes to swim out, 5 minutes to swim back and I would take 4-5 dives of 45 seconds in the remaining 30-35 minutes. My surface time between dives would be 5-6 minutes a piece and sometimes even 10 minutes between dives. The commitment to take the next dive would always pass me by. Yesterday that wasn't happening. I was in the water 40 minutes and I had around 8 dives. All but the last dive was typically 30-35 seconds a piece.

After two or three exhale dives down to 12 feet I moved on out a little ways to 15 foot deep water. I wanted to verify the bouyancy. Plus, I was going to move slowly in deeper water and at the same time watch what happened mentally as I crossed from being able to see the bottom to not being able to see the bottom(would the mind make me less comfortable in the breathe up before the dives).

I took another two dives at 15 feet. The weird and pleasant thing I noticed was that between the two dives I only spent 2:30-3:00 at the surface. I've never seen such a short breathe up stretch before. I felt very comfortable going for the next dive. No hesitation whatsoever. I found myself, both at 12 and 15 feet, very willing to hang out and watch both bouyancy and look around some. I was totally a surprise at how much my mind had calmed down just by changing what I was doing.

I moved on out to 18 feet and that's when things got really strange. I've always used valsalva(sp?). I have tried frenzel and I can isolate both muscles independantly but not together as one. I think their is still a bit of misunderstanding on the procedure as a whole on my part. Well, things were really crazy on the first dive at 18 feet. I headed down and as I got two to three feet from the bottom I was noticing the inability to use valsalva that I have heard you guys talk about over the past several years. The exhale diving brought the deep water up to me for change. It was flat out like there was nothing there let to equalize with. I've heard you guys mention it many times. The weirdness was about to occur though. I knew the pressure wasn't that bad but naturally I wanted to keep it in check. Since I was negative and I was sinking the last one or two feet before I hit bottom my lower body started to come around to go parallel to the bottom of the lake. All of sudden out of nowhere I equalized without much effort at all. At first while I was down there it hit me that this was rather unusual but it really started to sink in later in the afternoon as I thought about it more. My head didn't come up any, if anything it went lower. The mid and lower part of the body came down though. Why did I find it so much easier to equalize when the body was angled/laying flat on the bottom versus pointing down? I don't think the head to chest position changed any either. I don't think I have ever read anyone make mention of this scenario. Head up versus head down I have read about before but never what I saw yesterday.

Before I took the first dive to 18 feet I was already noticing a small bit a chill setting in. I went ahead and took a second dive at 18 feet and didn't notice anywhere near the trouble equalizing all the way down that I did on the dive before it.

I decided to take one more dive, full inhale, at 25 feet and confirm or deny the temperature drop I had been noticing the day before at my other dive site I dive quite often. So far at 18 feet I was still sitting at around 60 degrees F with the surface temp at 64. I swam on out another 50 yards or so, and dropped the line down and breathed up for the final dive of the day. I was in 25-26 foot deep water.

So far it had been a rather eerie day. A Sunday, first weekend of summer 9-9:30AM and the lake was dead, VERY DEAD. No boat traffic whatsoever. I was caught WAY off guard. I figured for sure it was going to be a case of watch yourself big time. Up until the last dive, I WAS WRONG! No worries, just carefree diving.

I waited a little longer at the surface to give the thermometer I attached to the dive line a chance to adjust to the bottom water temperature. I was definitely noticing myself cooling down. Thanks to dental problems I prefer to avoiding shivering. I knew this was going to be the last dive and I was wondering with the body cooling down how that was going to effect the mind with the breathe up. Would it make me wait longer at the surface...mentally.

I finally breathed up and took the last dive. I hit the temperature drop and almost bailed but I knew I was too close to the thermometer and headed straight for it instead. I saw I was in 50 degree water at the bottom. I stalled a little longer than I had been the rest of the day with taking the nose clips off and started the ascen very slowly. I wanted to see where I hitting the temperature drop. Gee, 19 feet. Just about the same as where I was seeing the day before on the other lake. I was a little surprised by how much more I wasn't noticing the temperature drop as much today as I was yesterday. Granted surface temperature yesterday was 4 degrees warmer.

I got back up to the surface and swam on in and called it a day. Definitely the nicest day of freediving I've seen thus far. The goggles didn't give me fits like they did the day before and everything went the smoothest its ever went. Small, stupid mistakes I would normally make I wasn't making yesterday for first time. The change between exhale and inhale seemed to make all the difference.

[Mullins]

Ahh I give up. Good luck.

[fcallagy]

m2b
take some of the advice given in the forum its all meant in the best possible way. I,m gonna ask what may be a dumb question can you equalise your goggles via a pipe or are you actually wearing a mask ? If not you need to start diving with someone or do a course. As Mullins said you seem to be taking on an awful lot of stuff without getting the basics down first.
If you are diving without equalising your goggles you will soon experaince pain and damage to your eyes as your depths increase if not some already.

[m2b]

I use an air bladder attached to the goggles for auto equalization. I saw the idea here on the forum last year and built a pair. Other than the occasional time when I think I have them setting over the eyes correctly and they aren't(generally always the right lense???), they work great and I have never noticed any pressure build up at all. The guy who made the posting said he's had them down to 100+ feet and they were still auto equalizing for him like they should be. With the new wetsuit I moved the bladder around so it is always out of the way and pretty much at neck level all the time. This will make it so the eyes and air bladder are pretty much at the same depth and the air pressure should always remain constant with the water pressure. Right now I wish I could find just as nice a fitting pair of goggles with clear lenses versus the yellow tinted lenses I have right now. I wouldn't mind rerouting the hoses so they don't have any kind of a tendency to be in the way like they do right now on occasion.

I am glad I went back into the shallower waters. I'm glad I took off the weight belt. I'm also glad I've started exhale diving. They all work together as one. With inhale diving I couldn't take off the weight belt. I would be too bouyant under water and would fight to get down to neutral bouyancy, strike one. With the weight belt on I would be heavy at surface during breathe up and as a result I would have to move about at the surface to stay afloat and be able to keep from going under while breathing up, strike two.

I found a nifty technique to help stay afloat in the past few dive session that works beautifully. I call it "The Wave". Unfortunately, with the weight belt I am still somewhat heavy at the surface when I breathe out and I can drop down to the point the snorkel goes under. That makes for a real nice time trying to take the next breath. The only way to avoid it is to wave my hands like I'm waving to someone down at the bottom of the lake. I don't move the arms just both hands. For the most part it works pretty well. On occasion though I have to get the arms into the motion. The problem, any movement is counterproductive when trying to slow the heart rate and breathe up. Now as a result I start the dive with a higher heart rate. I also have to fight harder to get to the bottom which uses more oxygen since I am going down with full lungs.

On the other hand when I take the weight belt off I'm pretty much bouyant at the surface. Pretty much eyes average being right at water level. Yesterday I was only "waving" once or twice per breathe up, vs Saturday when I was waving constantly all the time with the weight belt on. By exhaling, I was making far less work for myself to get down to neutral which was helping to conserve oxygen. All in all it was making for a much calmer diving scene by dropping the weight belt and the going exhale.

Yesterday I was shocked on several on the dives when I saw I had been under 30 seconds. I couldn't believe I was diving for 30 seconds after inhaling and I was feeling the same as though I had just made a 45-50 second inhale dive. Now as I think through what all was/wasn't going on yesterday it makes complete sense. Yesterday everything was calmed down by 100-fold. It was a much more relaxing diving environment. When you're not fighting yourself it will be much more relaxing.

By being able to start the dive calmer you can think things through better as well. In all the dives I've taken in the past I never have remembered to take off the nose clip until the pressure started building as I was ascending. Yesterday it was totally automatic at the bottom to take off the nose clip. The only thing I can give credit to is the fact the mind calmed down because of the change in environment, including exhale vs inhale. I wasn't as busy at the surface since I didn't have the weight belt on. I didn't need the weight belt because I was going to be hitting neutral bouyancy much sooner than I would otherwise. The body and mind calmed down and I was able to focus on what I needed to focus on instead having the mind running around like a chicken with its head chopped off.

I plan to work with exhale diving slowly as I know my bottom depth is limited anyways. It will allow me to focus on what I should to be doing, when I should be doing it. For me it seems like I end up making the mistakes when I dive inhale.

I know there are several things I want and several things I need to work on to make things more enjoyable/easier/safer and I plan on spending the time doing them. I think for my own personal comfort level I'll work on them exhale vs inhale from now on. More than likely I'll stick with only 30-35 second dives due to what I'm willing to do versus what I'm not willing to do, namely get away from the dive line. I only ever see fish at shoreline so there's no reason to spend any kind of bottom time and take the extra risk of blackout that goes with longer dive times.

Ryan

[TampaBrian]

wow, entertaining for sure. M2b are you male or female? Not trying to be insulting at all bit either your a woman because you talk a lot or your a man because you don't listen I find your stories interesting but I think its tough for some to respond the way you want because what your doing is probably what u shouldn't. Please scroll up, take some better advice, learn more, get a swimming partner or at least a significant other to watch over you and focus on one thing at a time. I hope you take advice instead of walking down a path to almost certain death.

[island_sands]

Originally Posted by bubbleless

Hi Ryan

With regards to the "divers rash" - try using some "Lamisil Cream" ( Terbinafine ) if it is available in your part of the world - this is usually a treatment for Athletes foot, and is very good antifungal for getting rid of most divers rashes.

I have been getting really itchy after dives I have noticed. but only on the back of the legs, inner thighs and glutes its bloody awful. I took an antihistamine and put on some skin infection cream which helps a little, but then it flares up again during the day. It's not my wetsuit as that goes in the washing machine once a week. Any clues?

[trux]

Originally Posted by island_sands

I have been getting really itchy after dives I have noticed. but only on the back of the legs, inner thighs and glutes its bloody awful. I took an antihistamine and put on some skin infection cream which helps a little, but then it flares up again during the day. It's not my wetsuit as that goes in the washing machine once a week. Any clues?

It may be better moving it to another thread, not to hijack this discussion, but washing wetsuits in a washing machine will not necessarily kill fungus and/or bacteria. Wetsuits are usually washed at low temperatures, and if no anti-bacterial and fungicide products are used, the wetsuit may be still pretty "living" afterward, although it may be perfumed and smelling better.

[felipe felop]

you could try scientific news under freediver nutrition on the other freediver thread it mentions your symptoms bill &m2b i hope he can help you, good luck guys
its by ildiver on the training thread