Tom Sietas 213 m DNF !!!!!

[Kars]

Well the increddible 244m Mullins put down surely isn't going to be an easy blow!

I heard of Tom he has done a dynamic with fins of 250m in training a while ago, but still being able to put it all together at that specific moment is a great mental strength.

All the Best Tom, you earned your name in the recordbooks!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

[pehtran]

Huge! Congratulations! Miha

[daveking]

incredible! Just amazing.

[Renard palmé]

Hi all,
Do you know a web site where we can follow Tom's program for his next attempts in Hamburg (especially his DYN performance ?). Is he going with bi-fins, or changed to monofin ?

Much exciting !

[Ol Dirty Diver]

Originally Posted by rbsub

For the German readers:
And for those who can't understand german: There are some pictures, too.

(Don't know how long this link will work. It is from one of the most visited webpages in Germany!)

Apnoe-Tauchen: Weltrekordler Sietas schafft 213 Meter mit einem Atemzug - Sport - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten

I try to learn whatever I can from great performances, and I found some excerpts from that article interesting. However, I cannot read German, so I relied on Google to translate the page, which is imperfect.

• "Because it is tiring to make sure what you do all day than if you only aufstehst, cleans your teeth and go into the water," says the 31-year-old. He has not eaten, drunk only water. Just as the costs of moving the body digestive energy, which he later can bring valuable meters. He has taken an elevator to the pool, not the stairs.'

• '...sets a weight belt around the waist and one around his neck, a total of about ten kilograms.'

• '"You have to start at the beginning that you still have a little lift and do not end up too much downforce," he explains. "Because you use even air, which means your lungs during the dive smaller, about the output."'

• 'Ten minutes before the dive Sietas begins to breathe faster, hyperventilate...'

• '...a total of nearly ten litres of water below.'

• 'He breathes deep one last time, the pulse is down to 45, he appears under.'

• 'After about 75 meters of logs respiratory irritant. Sietas has learned to ignore him.'

- 10kg seems like a lot of weight to use. I'm sure that 10L lungs require a lot of weight, but I wouldn't have expected that much. Does anyone know how thick his wetsuit was? Looks like at least a 3mm:



- What was he saying about needing a little "lift" at the beginning? Maybe the translation just isn't good, but did he say that he likes to have slight positive buoyancy at the beginning?

- He hyperventilates for 10 minutes before the start? I've only seen one video of him, the one in which he does an O2 static of over 16 minutes, in which it appeared that he practiced rather aggressive hyperventilation for several minutes before his performance. Does he always hyperventilate that much?

- Maybe the translation is bad, but did it say that his pulse was only 45 when he started the performance? Even after all the hyperventilation? I don't see how that's possible. It seems impossible to keep one's heartrate below even 100 with hyperventilation.

- Tom admits to feeling uncomfortable at only 75m, which I'm guessing may be when his contractions or "struggle phase" starts. This seems rather early considering the entire length of his performance (at best, 75m is when my contractions start, but that's beyond my halfway point). Does anyone know when his contractions start in his statics? It seems like a shared trait among some of the great apneists is the ability to endure very long struggle phases, indicating greater low oxygen tolerance?

I'm sure a lot more can be learned (or a lot more questions developed) when a video is released.

[rbsub]

Originally Posted by Ol Dirty Diver

- What was he saying about needing a little "lift" at the beginning? Maybe the translation just isn't good, but did he say that he likes to have slight positive buoyancy at the beginning?

- He hyperventilates for 10 minutes before the start? I've only seen one video of him, the one in which he does an O2 static of over 16 minutes, in which it appeared that he practiced rather aggressive hyperventilation for several minutes before his performance. Does he always hyperventilate that much?

- Maybe the translation is bad, but did it say that his pulse was only 45 when he started the performance? Even after all the hyperventilation? I don't see how that's possible. It seems impossible to keep one's heartrate below even 100 with hyperventilation.

The "lift thing" is easy: There was an elevator to reach the pool. He didn't walk up the stairs ;-)

Your translation with the "45" war right - but I, too, doubt that it is right.

[Kars]

Hi Kurt,

- I recal Tom uses a 3mm suit.
- lift in regard to his preperation, is meaning he uses the escalator instead of stairs to minimise any use of energy. In regard to the dive itself, there is a little boyancy change happening during a long dynamic. So it's important to choose one's weights wisely, not to be nutral in the beginning, but struggleing to stay of the bottom in the end for instance.
- I've seen Tom prepairing in competition, and it just looks like normal slow breathing. But when you have big lungs a deep breath quickly becomes more ventilation than the body requiers, hence Hyperventilation.

- I think the journalist may have screwed up some numers and may have put his 45 resting pulls before he starts his final 'breath-up'.

- The urge to breathe is not equal to having contractions, these may lay far appart.
A friend of mine does not have contractions, 'only' an extreme sence of discomfort.

Kars

[glennv]

One of the reasons Tom is able to keep a low hart rate at the start is because he does not inhale to the max using lots of muscle efford , but after a big below max gulp gradual fills up his lungs to way above max by small (but lots and lots and lots) of packs.

Regarding his contractions. I asked him some time ago and like most 'normal' fredivers he gets contractions around 3:30 or around, but manages to withstand them for 6-7 minutes. This may have changed some since this was about 1,5 years ago but his technique is not revolving around delaying contractions but rather ignoiring them over a very olong period.

Regarding neckweights. Lots of people underestimate how much you need for a perfect trimmed body in nofins. Even with my small 6 liter lungs and only a 3 mm pants i need around 3,5 kg's to be perfectly horizontal.
Add several liters air and a 3 mm top and you need massive more kilos. But this can be very different for each person depending on build.

[TRITON]

Originally Posted by glennv

One of the reasons Tom is able to keep a low hart rate at the start is because he does not inhale to the max using lots of muscle efford , but after a big below max gulp gradual fills up his lungs to way above max by small (but lots and lots and lots) of packs.

Regarding his contractions. I asked him some time ago and like most 'normal' fredivers he gets contractions around 3:30 or around, but manages to withstand them for 6-7 minutes. This may have changed some since this was about 1,5 years ago but his technique is not revolving around delaying contractions but rather ignoiring them over a very olong period.

Regarding neckweights. Lots of people underestimate how much you need for a perfect trimmed body in nofins. Even with my small 6 liter lungs and only a 3 mm pants i need around 3,5 kg's to be perfectly horizontal.
Add several liters air and a 3 mm top and you need massive more kilos. But this can be very different for each person depending on build.

It would be interesting to know when do people like Herbert , Martin ....and other top freedivers get contractions.

[miguel-van]

Congrats! Very impressive!
I wish I could do even half of this distance...

[kelp princess]

Amazing - Bravo Tom!

I'd settle for even a third Miguel

kp

[trux]

Originally Posted by glennv

One of the reasons Tom is able to keep a low hart rate at the start is because he does not inhale to the max using lots of muscle efford , but after a big below max gulp gradual fills up his lungs to way above max by small (but lots and lots and lots) of packs.

Well, the muscle work may add or save some beats per min, but the main part of it is not caused by increased physical effort during the hyperventilation, but is it a plain and simple physiological reaction on the lower level of CO2, so hyperventilating in a relaxed way does not really explain the low heart rate before the submersion. However, low heart rate before the immersion is not really desired. Quite the opposite - you need rather quick heart rate to push the blood through the body faster, hence oxygenating the blood (especially the venous part) and tissues better. Unfortunately it is much more complex, so there are some disadvantages too, but generally high heart rate before the immersion, and low rate as soon as possible after the start of apnea are desired.

Originally Posted by glennv

Regarding neckweights. Lots of people underestimate how much you need for a perfect trimmed body in nofins. Even with my small 6 liter lungs and only a 3 mm pants i need around 3,5 kg's to be perfectly horizontal.

Yes, that's right - I have even smaller lungs, and use 2.5 kg without any wetsuit. And I believe Tom's 10 l are without packing (or am I wrong?), so with his rather extreme packing, he probably gets in much more.

[glennv]

Originally Posted by trux

Yes, that's right - I have even smaller lungs, and use 2.5 kg without any wetsuit. And I believe Tom's 10 l are without packing (or am I wrong?), so with his rather extreme packing, he probably gets in much more.

You may be right since i remember when I was assisting him during one of his world records some time ago with his neckweight, the thing alone was already 10 kilos. And he also has some weights his hips.

[Ol Dirty Diver]

Originally Posted by Kars

In regard to the dive itself, there is a little boyancy change happening during a long dynamic. So it's important to choose one's weights wisely, not to be nutral in the beginning, but struggleing to stay of the bottom in the end for instance.

Buoyancy change due to what...suit compression? In the article, regarding this Tom is quoted saying (imperfect translation), "Because you use even air, which means your lungs during the dive smaller, about the output." Sounds like he's just commenting that you need a bit more air because the lungs compress as one descends into the water, but I don't know why he would have said that a bit of "lift" is needed initially. (I'm not talking about the elevator).

I'm concerned about this because I have started many dynamics just slightly buoyant because I didn't fill my lungs with precisely the right amount of air, and this has always only been detrimental for performance for me.

Originally Posted by trux

I believe Tom's 10 l are without packing (or am I wrong?), so with his rather extreme packing, he probably gets in much more.

According to the article:

• 'Using a technique called "packing", he is now able to up to three litres of air into his lungs in addition to press and so a total of nearly ten litres of water below.'

7L, then?

[trux]

Originally Posted by Ol Dirty Diver

Buoyancy change due to what...suit compression?

It is because of oxygen consumption. The oxygen in lungs used during the apnea is not fully replaced by the same amount of CO2. However, the volume change is rather minor, roughly around 2-5%, perhaps a percent more in extreme cases.

EDIT: on the other hand, at heavy packers, the volume change after a long apnea would be reduced - it would not reach the numbers mentioned above. Although packing increases the lung volume, it also increases the inner pressure. And as oxygen gets consumed, the pressure decreases until it is back to normal. Only then the lung volume starts to decrease. Well, in reality both effects (volume and pressure change) run at least to certain point simultaneously, but anyway only part of the oxygen consumption will translate into buoyancy loss. I would need to look up more exact data to give you a realistic buoyancy change estimate after a max apnea, but my uneducated guess would be somewhere between 1% and 3%, perhaps 4% at very max (but I rather doubt it).