Guernsey 2008

[Sarnian]

Originally Posted by Sarnian

Perhaps we could ask the oracle? Richard Lord's Google Group was mentioned in the Guernsey Press yesterday - I haven't investigated yet but it's at:
Discussions - CIenviron | Google Groups

I subscribed and have now received the following very full reply from Richard Lord:

The fish cannot be a brill or a topknot because the fish in the image
on the CIenviron website is right-eyed and brill and topknot are left-
eyed flatfish. What do I mean by this?

All flatfish go through metamorphosis. As larvae they swim upright
with one eye on each side of the head. During metamorphosis one eye
migrates to the other side of the head and there is a 90 degree
rotation in posture as the flatfish begins life on the sea bed. The
pigmentation is also asymmetrical as usually one side becomes white
while the other side retains pigmentation to blend with the colour of
the sea floor.

A flatfish has two sides just like a round fish like a cod for
example. In adult flatfish usually one side is white (the blind side)
and one side is pigmented (the eyed side.) The left-side is blind
(has no eyes) in right-eyed flatfish and the right-side is blind in
left-eyed flatfish. In right-eyed flatfish the left eye migrates to
the right side of the head during metamorphosis - both eyes in
adulthood are on the right side of the head. In left-eyed flatfish
the right eye migrates to the left side of the head.

You can just see the small mouth as a crooked line in front of the
left-eye in the picture. The left eye in the image is actually the
fish's right-eye (from the right side of the head) and the left eye of
the fish (originally from the left-side of the head) is to the right
of it. The left eye has migrated across the top of the head from what
is now the blind side to join the right eye. So the fish in the photo
is right-eyed. Fish in the family soleidae are right-eyed. This fish
is a common or dover sole, Solea vulgaris. The pectoral fin on the
eyed-side has a blackish blotch, which is clearly visible in the image.
.
Best wishes,

Richard
Richard Lord

[ADM]

I stand corrected then Sarnian. Just didn't look right to me, appeared very pointy loooking in the pics.

[Sarnian]

Never mind Andy. That Richard Lord bloke seems to know his stuff though!

I tried at a tall rocky place this afternoon. Vis very variable - from about 1m to 3m. Apart from the usual rockies, the only silvery fish I saw was a decent sized bass in the distance in shallow open water, which flicked its tail at me with a "clop" and was gone!

Let's hope October improves a bit.

[Old Man Dave]

Have to say that despite the less than ideal conditions I have managed a few fish this last month. None of them have been record size but the old freezer is looking nicely full. After a couple of bass yesterday and a few plaice from last week in the freezer I decided to have a go at the inshore gravel banks for a brill or turbot. You need a boat of course so it's lucky I've got one. Hardly remember how to drive it but then i've only managed to get out 3 or 4 times this year.

Nice sunny day and not much wind but some of the big swell from yesterday was still there. Vis was okay and although the tide was springing I did a couple of drops on the banks.

Ended up with a nice mixed bag. Nothing too special but I got a few brill (no turbot), a few scallops, a big cuttle (for my mates wife) and a jumbo daddy crab about 6lb. Tried the rods as well and added 6 big mackerel.

Fun day.

Dave

[foxfish]

Good catch Dave but are you sure they were brill?
Col i don't doubt Mr Lords knowledge but he forgot to mention that the confusion was based around the fact that that particular sole does not actually look like one!
PS Dave, they definitely taste like brill
PSS forgot to mention that we went out in my boat for a short fishing session, the normal bream & mackerel but also a nice little cod. Unfortunately the cod escaped at the net!

[derek foxen]

Originally Posted by foxfish

Unfortunately the cod escaped at the net!

Cod moves in a mysterious way!

[Sarnian]

... that piece of cod which passeth all understanding!

Apparently the largest cod to be found are now in Iceland - perhaps they need to focus their economy on it!

[Magpie]

Originally Posted by Old Man Dave

Hardly remember how to drive it but then i've only managed to get out 3 or 4 times this year.
Dave

Ah so thats why I saw Spearfish trundling down past St Sampsons at about 5 knots, and there was me thinking you were just trying to save a few schekels worth of fuel!

Saw Yobo come hooning into the harbour about an hour earlier too, scaring off all me fish! Managed a few bream on the mullet gear though.

Thanks Col, yes, it is the correct side for a sole, and thats what I thought it was in the water, only started questioning it when I looked at the pictures on the computer. But as Mart says, whilst you can't argue with the facts Richard came up with, he does seem to have overlooked the fact its colouration is totaly different from the sole we see regularly. Maybe its a brole? Or a solburt?

[dave]

Originally Posted by Sarnian

I subscribed and have now received the following very full reply from Richard Lord:

The fish cannot be a brill or a topknot because the fish in the image
on the CIenviron website is right-eyed and brill and topknot are left-
eyed flatfish. What do I mean by this?

I am not sure this is actually true as a foolproof method of id.
Different species of flats are primarily left or right sided, but you do get exceptions. I have a photo somewhere of a "matching pair" of plaice I caught many years ago, one left eyed, one right eyed

cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment

[Old Man Dave]

"Spot" on Dave. I caught a wrong sided eyed flounder that was otherwise perfectly healthy only a couple of weeks ago. I have caught plaice, brill and turbot that went right when they should have gone left or visa versa. Also had a fair few thet were correct sided for eyes but coloured to some degree on the underside. Had a brill once thet was completely coloured top and bottom. Also seen most species of flats but especially turbot with large patches of white on the top side. These fish usually also have some colour underneath.

Left or right hand that picture don't look like a sole to me. Hybrids are possible but don't think I've seen any and not sure it would be obvious. A 20lb plaice caught in a trawl a few years ago off Brighton was suggested to have been a plaice/turbot cross although it looked like a plaice in the photo's. Who knows really? We live in a wonderful world.

Dave

[derek foxen]

[quote=foxfish;737889]Good catch Dave but are you sure they were brill?

Dave, they definitely taste like brill

I expect they'll taste like brill to me also ( OMD kindly shared his flatties with Mart and me as special birthday presents).
Do you think I should send this one (see below) for expert identification?
Swam all the way from Massachusetts as a birthday gift from my daughter!

[foxfish]

Happy birthday brother Derek & many more.

[Old Man Dave]

Yes, happy birthday big brother. If you got to 21 and started counting backwards then you won't be born for another 29 years . Hope you had a good day and enjoy them brill. Sees you later.

Dave

[Magpie]

Enjoy Derek

[podge]

Happy happy Birthday Derek and I wish you all the best mate.