Teak 80 - Part one: The stock

[Dobs]

Very nice work Ed!
I can only suggest you to cut through the band's hole like on your Totemsub so you can easily remove the band. I didn't do it on my gun and I have to remove the articulated wishbone every time I decide to re-varnish the gun.
Also I think you can reduce the lateral profile of the gun little more to improve the sideways movement. Don't worry, the teak can handle the load of the bands without any barrel flex

[portinfer]

"Sweet looking pictures, do you have problems with the handle connection?"

Hi Anthony - no problem with the handle, maybe you thought that because there is a bit of glue underneath near the trigger ? Handle is pretty rock solid and fits my hnad well with the trigger finger in the right place etc. Maybe I could do with reducing the wood a bit more to put my hand slightly higher up so it is more in line with the shaft but that is only a minor adjustment.

Hi Dobs - thanks for the input. By the way what gear do you use for building your guns ? I was trying to buy an Abellan trigger and shaft (140/7mm) for the double band 107 project but am having trouble....

I'll cut a hole maybe but I'll be using dyneema wishbones so they come off really easily (matter of seconds - it is a special 'loose' knot/friction knot) so I won't have the same trouble as you (I think).

So do you mean reduce the width of the gun ? Or the vertical thickness ? Originally I was going to make a gun with a wide thin profile but as it's my first gun I sort of went freestyle ... ooops, the problem of carving away and not having a proper plan/design... Oh well, you live and learn and it might still turn out ok.

So Dobs - what tools do you use to shape it ? I am using a bastard file and a second cut file along with some rifflers and sandpaper - all by hand (at this stage - power tools earlier...). Just curious.
Ed

[Dobs]

Hi Ed,
By reducing the profile I meant make the gun thinner reducing the vertical thickness. I'm planning to do the same on my 80 cm gun in the winter when I don't use it.
Right now it is nearly 3.5 cm thick. I plan to take at least 0.5 cm from the down side of the gun in order to improve the lateral movement. In its current shape the lateral movement of the 80 cm gun is the same as the one of my 90 cm gun when it should be significantly better.
As for the tools I also use only two or three different kinds of files and lots of sandpaper. Everything is done by hand. Takes a lot of time but I've never been in a hurry to build a gun
If you are going to use only dyneema wishbones you won’t need to cut through the band hole. However you should consider the fact that not every euro-style shaft can be used with dyneema wishbones. My 6mm O.ME.R shaft simply cannot hold the dyneema as the notches are just too shallow. I just had to use an articulated wishbone.
Cheers!

[Old Man Dave]

While this is totally Ed's gun I did act as advisor on the construction side.
I suspect Anthony might assume that the handle is a "butt" joint to the stock. In fact it's joined by an "open mortice" or "bridle" joint. Effectivly a part of the handle that you can't see is sandwiched inside a slot cut in the stock. This provides a mechanical fixing as well as a huge glueing surface area. In this case the joint was an absolute perfect fit so is super strong. I know - I cut the joint.
Old Man "Crafty" Dave.

[SEDATE]

Go On Mate and Very nice work,too
waiting for(to see) after epoxy !

[portinfer]

Yeah it is pretty strong - I put it in a vice and bounced on it for a few minutes Dave - it is my gun true, but I doubt it would have happened without your help - both myself and Pete are very grateful for your knowledge and expertise. I just need to finish it now and shoot a fish or two !

Dobs - what dimensions do you have for your gun ? 30mm by 30mm ?

What do you think the minimum depth and height are before you start weakening the stock too much ?

I might have another hack at it today.

Ed

[Dan Man]

I don't mean to distract from your gun but this is one of my thinnest guns I have made. The stock is 25mm high and 22mm wide. It has a single 16mm rubber and a 6.6mm rob allen shaft with an undersea mech. I wouldn't use any more bands than this on it...it doesn't need it! Oh and its a 1.1m gun

[portinfer]

Thanks Dan - Looks like a nice light bit of kit - mahoghany I guess ?

I took it down yesterday from 35mm high to 32mm at the butt end and 30mm at the nose. Still looks fine. My gun is alot wider so it moves from side to side better but still has a bit of mass to cope with recoil in the vertical plane from the 17.5mm band. Some people have been recommending a 20mm band for the 80 but I will try it first with this configuration (with a 6mm Devoto shaft that is 115cm long - filed the notches for the dyneema wishbone already - so nice and smooth).

Just need to do some more work on the nose - I am going for the tucked in bands approach (like the Gimansub guns) for maximum hydrodynamics.

Ed

[Dobs]

Originally Posted by portinfer

Dobs - what dimensions do you have for your gun ? 30mm by 30mm ?

What do you think the minimum depth and height are before you start weakening the stock too much ?

I might have another hack at it today.

Ed

Hi Ed,
My gun is wider in the middle and thinner at the muzzle and at the handle. The widest part is about 40mm and the thinnest (muzzle) about 28-30mm.
The height of the body is 35mm, but I'll reduce it to 30 as soon as I can. The gun has so much mass that I fell no recoil at all with short 19 mm band. By short I mean 42 cm.
As for the minimum depth I think Dan already answered that.

Dan, your gun looks beautiful

[portinfer]

So Dobs - you can see my gun is fat just infront of the handle and then tapers to the nose - do you think this is a good idea ? I was looking at the Dapiran guns and I think alot of his guns are like that - especailly the medijedi...

[Dan Man]

Its actually silky oak and western red cedar Both Australian timbers. Its got 5 laminates.

Here you can see the wood a bit better.



I'm not sure what type of fish you are hunting over there with an 80cm gun but isn't a 20mm rubber on a 6mm shaft a bit overkill? I think thats way over powered. I use a 7mm shaft and a single 16mm rubber on my 90cm gun and that works a treat. Probably Australian fish are probably a bit more stupid and not as fast

[portinfer]

Hey Dan - so you live in Australia ? Where abouts ? Yes, I think the same with the power question but other people have suggeested a 20mm band... personally I think my set up should be fine - 17.5mm bands with a 115cm 6mm shaft. Just need speed rather than punching power.

The 80 is for bass over here in the Channel Islands and for the occasional night dive for red mullet - with bass the largest is about 10 pounds (so far only managed nine and a flick over half) and with red mullet up to two and a half pounds so far...

Murky water and strong currents, either hunting in the shallows or aspetto style. Either way a gun that tracks really well for fast moving bass in shallow water....

Nice handle on your gun. Did you have trouble balancing it due to the thinness ?? Looks like you freeshaft with it ? (The shaft guide on top) - Does it have a rail ?

Ed

[Dobs]

Originally Posted by portinfer

So Dobs - you can see my gun is fat just infront of the handle and then tapers to the nose - do you think this is a good idea ? I was looking at the Dapiran guns and I think alot of his guns are like that - especailly the medijedi...

Ed, I think the design of your gun is very good. The more mass in front of the handle will help reduce the recoil and the thinner front end will ease the up-down movement. BTW you know that you can always try the stock in water and see if it tracks well or needs more wood to be removed for a slimmer and more manoeuvrable profile.

Don, at the beginning I also though that 19mm band with 6 mm/115 cm shaft will be an overkill but then I tried it and I hit a fish with my first ever shot with the gun. Then four out of the next five shots were deadly too, and I’m talking about 0.5-1 kg fish at a distance of 2-3 metres. I suppose that the heavy teak wood absorbs recoil very well so the shaft flies strait and there is also very small whiplash effect on the shaft due to the railguide.
Bottom line - I’m happy with this set up on a wooden gun. On an aluminum or carbon euro gun it would probably be an overkill.

[James T]

Hey Ed, if you were doing this again, how many laminates would you go for, I am inspired by your work here - am talking to a local Teak supplier in Bristol about getting some lengths cut to glue for my own attempt. I suppose you need an odd number of laminates - maybe with the centre laminate at least wide enough to carry the shaft guide?

James

[Dan Man]

I live around the boarder of NSW and QLD on the east coast of australia. Supprisingly it is balanced great! I didn't have to do anything to it. I don't freeshaft but I wanted to try out the closed muzzle wooden gun, plus I wasn't using a shaft with shark fins so I could do it. It has a full length rail and is dead on as you can see by the pictures - that was after about an hour in 5-7m vis.

That handle believe it or not is actually plastic. I'm sure anyone in the USA could get a hold of one! Its a stanley plane handle! I just got a length of stainless threaded rod and glued it into the handle and then bolted it to the stock. Strong cheap and a great grip! I suggest you guys try it one time if you can find a handle somewhere.



I saw about 10 handles on the UK ebay for about $20 one time!

Cheers guys.