Spearing: Boat, RIB, Dory, Dinghy, Dive Kayak?

[Mr. X]

Ok, this one has been touched on in a few threads of late, time to open up the discussion...

Several people have recommended getting a boat as way to make better use of limited spearing time & to visit bigger bass. Fish finders/echo locators/sonar & GPS too. Sounds expensive.

So, what do recommend? How do you use it? What are the benefits, dangers & drawbacks? Is rental possible (how about those diver taxis at Chesil)? Training? What do carry? Diving alone?

[Mr. X]

A few guidelines to constrain the discussion (feel free to ingore):

- I am leaning toward a 2 person kayak or small-ish, second-hand (say 4 person) zodiac style dinghy that can take a reasonable size engine (i.e. not just a tiny tender motor).

- a Kayak would need to go on a roof rack (& my car has a high roof) & I may need to get it up there single-handed

- a Dinghy would need to be tow-able (the thought of towing does not excite me though!). An inflatible that fit in the back of the car might work...although with spearing gear, space is beginning to fill up.

I notice Zodiac-style dinghys are available in several configurations
e.g. floor (soft, inflatable, wood, aliminium, RIB, inflatible & aluminium, etc.)
- any recommendation? I assume a wood, steel or aluminium transom is preferred to an inflatible back?

- what about punctures? (Did you see Top Gear this week?!) An inflatible dinghy seems derigeur for divers & spearos but isn't that a little risky for spearo with all those sharp pointy spears, stringers, knives, fish fins, rocks, crab hooks/spikes, fishing hooks, anchors,...? I must admit I feel quite uneasy about heading out to sea in a small boat as it is. Why aren't Dories more popular?

- a friend bought a secondhand Dory last year, a small, towable, flat bottom fishing boat (like a rib but solid). As he pointed out, it can't be punctured by rocks or spears (it is designed to be unsinkable). He took RYA Yacht Master training (recommended?). For safety, he bought a second motor for the boat, rollocks (missing when he bought it) & oars & a short wave radio (& pos. a GPS?). It seems like a good set up.

- a kayak might be handy, although I would only use it to cross bays or follow the shoreline. With more experience, perhaps a short hop to close, visible island.

[Mr. X]

What extras do you need/recommend?

Kayak:
- roof rack (and thoughts on this - I read that a pull out bar helps loading).
- paddles
- backrests
- bungee net
- hatches?
- mini-flares?
- small anchor, chain & line
- grab lines?
- small fish finder?

Dinghy:
- extra engine?
- radio?
- flares?
- bilge pump?
- air pump?
- training?
- licensing?/launch fees?/storage?
- maintenance (engine/body?)
- flares?
- trailer + trailer board + fit towing hitch & electrics
- GPS?
- fish finder?
- gear locker? Speargun storage? fish storage?
- medium size anchor + chain + line

Maybe I should buy a property on the beach to store it?!

[miles]

Hiya

I think you left the most important part out:
How much do you want to spend??

As with anything else in life, the price is a good place to start!!

Regards
miles

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by miles

...I think you left the most important part out:
How much do you want to spend??

As with anything else in life, the price is a good place to start!!
...

Well, I have a pretty (un)healthy mortgage to deal with, so the short answer is: "not much" or "as little as possible"! From my constraints above, you might guess as much.

To be honest, I can't see buying a dinghy this year (unless a particularly good deal crops up -- I did see one last year, which is what started me on this train of thought). Too much hassle, expense, time,... Also, I have yet to go out with my friend in this Dory -- I might not like it. I have been warned by at least 4 people that boats are a money pit. Also, there are unlikely to be huge amounts of tuna available to help offset costs .

The Kayak seems more viable this year, it could be used for family activities and exercise as well as acting as a good spearing platform. The upfront costs is surprisingly high (about the same as a dinghy with motor & trailer) but it seems somehow safer and there is less need for expensive extras (like radios, GPS, launch fees, ...).

[Pastor]

For my money I'd wait for another year and gain some extra spearing time from the shore untill you can afford the boat you want. I went with a 3.2m Yam with a 9.8hp motor, launching in Anglesey at least is free under 10hp, otherwise £100 pa, it holds 3 spearo's comfortably if your tidy and folds up into a bag at the end of the day and stores in the back of the garage until next time. They come with their own built in launching wheels so no trailer required either, the only real hassle is inflating and deflating it etc, 15 mins each way. We took it to the Isle of Man last year in the back of our Fiesta with camping and dive gear, I guess it ran for about 6 days solid on 5 gallons of fuel, works for me, tight fisted bugger that I am!

[miles]

Hiya

I've owned quite a few boats in the past. Ranging from 15' (4m) fibreglass cat's to 29' Fibreglass cats, 18'-24' monohulls, 15'-21' Rib's and some kayaks as well.

Lets start with kayaks:
Easy to launch anywhere.
Can be transported on roof racks on your car.
Easy to cover good distances.
Keeps you fit!!!
Great dive platform.
Downsides are:
Costly to purchase new.
Larger kayaks are difficult to handle alone.
Makes for a strenous workout after a days diving and you have to get back in a strong wind!!

My Favourite all time dive boat is a RIB (rigid inflatable boat)
Rib's or Semi rigids are AWESOME boats. They how-ever have a stigma attached to them. Most people still think of them as toys, which the very first models probably were!! The newer generation rib's are with-out a doubt THE safest boat for its size. I operate my 21' Rib up to 40nm off-shore is some of the worlds most inhosiptable sea's, The Cape of Storms!! That alone should speak volumes for the sea-worthiness of a rib.

A small 4m rib with a 25hp motor with a tiller arm is a SUPERB spearfishing rig for close inshore usage. Twin motors are a benefit, but that simply push's the price up. A goode vhf radio and some oars plus your safety equipment, which includes flares, will make you safe!! Some people even fit a small 5-10hp auxiliary motor just in case of a breakdown. How-ever, since you'll be diving, you'll always have a wetsuit and fins, so swimming to shore in dire circumstance is always an option!!

ALL ribs built in South Africa are required by law to have at least three seperate air chamber. And that the boat remains floating with two of the three chambers fully deflated. Tommy Botha gaffed a hole in his 21' rib, 40nm off Cape Point, and still came home with his tuna and crew with-out any hassles!! Puncturing a rib isn't that easy. The materail, either PVC or Hyperlon is quite difficult to hole, but not impposible. Small holes are fixed with a dab of superglue on the water. Larger holes require a patch, similar to the way one would fix a bicyle wheel.

Sorry, but i've gotta run now.......going fishing....

Will continue this tommorow!!

Regards
miles

[dave]

I have owned and used quite a range of boats over the years;
Kayaks; everything Miles says, also plastic kayaks are pretty much maintence free, you can just sling them in the corner of the garden till you need it next. Fishing skis are an even beter option than sit on tops as they tend to paddle better. I have never had any problems just slinging a kayak up on the roofrack, but then i am 6'4, and I always have crap disposable cars that I am not too worried about denting or scratching

Personally I would never own a dory. One journey in a rough sea in a flat bottom dory will show why they are not more popular; Your kidneys and back will never be the same again!

I have owned inflatables in the past, the smaller ones are excellent one or two man boats, and really easy to launch. I would avoid wooden floors as they tend to rot if not really well looked after. I always found deflating them each time a pain, but if they are left inflated you have to watch out for stones etc under the floor wearing holes in the tubes. inflatables definately have a finite life, you see a lot of really cheap ones for sale which are ready for the tip (seams ready to split, delaminating material etc) In a big sea inflatables tend to bend as you go over a wave which is a bit disconcerting. I was once in a 5m inflatable which sank as 2 of the 3 chambers split at once!

I currently own a 4m Avon RIB with a 25hp, excellent all round boat, small enough to launch on my own, but plenty seaworthy enough to use 10 miles offshore.
I am now selling the Rib, however, as my next boat will be a C-Ski 440 all fibreglass boat, which arrives in March. The main advantages over my RIB are;
No tubes to puncture
Very soft riding hull
low gunnels for easy entry/exit
Under deck hatches to keep kit and fish out of the way

I am not a great believer in twin engines or small spare outboards (but then I dont go 40nm offshore) They add extra weight and complexity (and use more fuel with twins) and well maintained outboards rarely break down completely (running out of fuel or knackered plugs are by far the most common reasons for breakdowns). I do carry a radio, flares, a mobile, gps, sounder and reserve fuel.


In terms of maintenance, you are looking a about £100-£300 each year to get the outboard serviced, plus a new set of bearings for the trailer each year (about £30-£50 if you DIY), plus insurance, fuel costs, launching fees etc

cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

[seaman]

Dear Mr.X

I was in the same search as you in the past months and i decided for a 12 foot panga with a 10 hp jhonson and is great light and fun, and i can load it with everything and still room for more! I guess the kayak is an awesome sport, but i think a small boat it`s a good option. even more you can acommodate a partner and all his/her( )equipment. I dont think you need a gps, cause you just can`t go farther off shore with such a tiny boat, but ^still fun though

[Fondueset]

I've got an Ocean Kayak Malibu2 - it is a GREAT diving kayak - esp for freediving - will seat two adults, stable, sturdy etc. It is 12 feet long and weighs 56lbs though and a bitch to haul around by yourself esp in high winds - with two people it's great. I'd like to get something shorter I can throw in the back of a small pickup.
They make little two wheeled cart thingies you can stick on one end to make them easier to move around - this one would be a candidate for that.

[omega3]

I would just love a Brigg Eagle 500...all I need first is a house with a driveway/lockup garage and a Jag XKR to tow it!!!

Till then its a mates Shetland 535 or Narwhale

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by miles

...I've owned quite a few boats in the past. Ranging from 15' (4m) fibreglass cat's to 29' Fibreglass cats, 18'-24' monohulls, 15'-21' Rib's and some kayaks as well.

...
My Favourite all time dive boat is a RIB (rigid inflatable boat)
Rib's or Semi rigids are AWESOME boats. ...The newer generation rib's are with-out a doubt THE safest boat for its size. I operate my 21' Rib up to 40nm off-shore is some of the worlds most inhosiptable sea's, The Cape of Storms!! ...

A small 4m rib with a 25hp motor with a tiller arm is a SUPERB spearfishing rig for close inshore usage. Twin motors are a benefit, but that simply push's the price up. A goode vhf radio and some oars plus your safety equipment, which includes flares, will make you safe!! ... The material, either PVC or Hyperlon is quite difficult to hole, but not impossible...

Impressive collection of boats -- I've seen the pictures. Re. RIBs, good to hear they are robust in heavy seas --they use them for inshore rescue here, including some quite big, powerful ones.

I like the sound of the 4m rib as described. Are you talking about a real RIB keel? They seem less common & considerably more expensive than dinghy's with other floor types here (stuff often gets overpriced here -- could you compress one & send it over the internet to me - thanks!). I don't know much about motors -- the power range used seems quite large, so thanks for the 25HP recommendation (I seem to recall a couple of people liking Suzuki motors on bigger boats, is the same true on small ribs?) Agreed twin motors might be excessive but perhaps a small back-up might be a plan? Any special care/storage recommendedfor spearguns, etc?

Re. holing a RIB, I was watching Top Gear (over the top car show) on TV this weekend. They had a race across Europe to Norway -- a couple of the guys took a large very powerful RIB. I think the first one blew its engine up & the second (camera boat) got a puncture (or vice versa).

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by dave

... Fishing skis are an even beter option than sit on tops as they tend to paddle better. ...Personally I would never own a dory. One journey in a rough sea in a flat bottom dory will show why they are not more popular; Your kidneys and back will never be the same again!]

Fishing skis? Are those the South African fibreglass sit-ons featured in the SA spearo booklet?

I am surprised about the Dory -- I thought that was a traditional small Cornish fishing boat (my friend's family is from Cornwall). A diver friend reckons that Ribs & dinghy's are pretty rough rides too. Is anything comfortable in rough sea?!

Originally Posted by dave

I have owned inflatables in the past, the smaller ones are excellent one or two man boats, and really easy to launch. I would avoid wooden floors as they tend to rot if not really well looked after. I always found deflating them each time a pain, but if they are left inflated you have to watch out for stones etc under the floor wearing holes in the tubes. inflatables definately have a finite life, you see a lot of really cheap ones for sale which are ready for the tip (seams ready to split, delaminating material etc) In a big sea inflatables tend to bend as you go over a wave which is a bit disconcerting. I was once in a 5m inflatable which sank as 2 of the 3 chambers split at once!

I've heard people mention wooden floors being an issue before. Again, I am surprised. I would have thought you could easily replace it by cutting a new floor from 3/4" marine ply with an electric jig saw ... or am I missing something (I have noticed that plywood is much more expensive here than the states -- and I have not even seen marine ply around). Yep, those cheap old ones sound like the ones I have been looking at .

Bending boat -- don't like the sound of that. 2 chamber puncture -- don't like the sound of that. Funny, I was looking at an inflatible sit-on dive kayak but my son thought it was a really bad idea because it might sink (clear, logical mind -- wise beyond his years).

Originally Posted by dave

I currently own a 4m Avon RIB with a 25hp, excellent all round boat, small enough to launch on my own, but plenty seaworthy enough to use 10 miles offshore.
I am now selling the Rib, however, as my next boat will be a C-Ski 440 all fibreglass boat, which arrives in March. The main advantages over my RIB are;
No tubes to puncture
Very soft riding hull
low gunnels for easy entry/exit
Under deck hatches to keep kit and fish out of the way

4m RIB with 25HP engine again! Hmm how are the seams? How old is it? How much are looking for, for it? (Private mail me if you want). Is it a true RIB hull? Trailer, engine, pump, paddles, fuel tanks, box, bag, paddles, trailer board, flares, radio, gps, sounder, etc. included?! [Is it like this or this or thisor this...hopefully like this?]

Re. C-Ski 440, let us know how you get on with that (did you get a chance to try one out?). Looks really good & quite big, will you be towing it around much? How do they manage to get a soft ride out of a solid hull -- does the fibreglass flex to absorb shock? Are you going to get the sticking up "pillar wheel" console thing ... or an open deck? Sounds like a good design, are you getting it thro RA? (Hey, if you need some ballast when you go out fishing in that thing, I weigh about 230lb!).

They used to sell some really nice water ski boats in the states for really reasonable prices; several friends had them or had shares in one (they used them for water skiing though --odd folk! ). Are there any similar UK products -- or is cheaper/better to import?

Originally Posted by dave

...I do carry a radio, flares, a mobile, gps, sounder and reserve fuel.

In terms of maintenance, you are looking a about £100-£300 each year to get the outboard serviced, plus a new set of bearings for the trailer each year (about £30-£50 if you DIY), plus insurance, fuel costs, launching fees etc

cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

Service & maintenance fees -- the bain of my life! That sounds like a lot for one, small, accessible engine. Do you really replace wheel bearings every year? (I did it once on a car...needed to hire a special puller tool). I guess the trailer doesn't have suspension. Insurance, I hadn't thought of that. Is insurance mandatory (I'm thinking for a small, older boat)...is is this more for towing/3rd parties?

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by seaman

Dear Mr.X

I was in the same search as you in the past months and i decided for a 12 foot panga with a 10 hp jhonson and is great light and fun, and i can load it with everything and still room for more! I guess the kayak is an awesome sport, but i think a small boat it`s a good option. even more you can acommodate a partner and all his/her( )equipment. I dont think you need a gps, cause you just can`t go farther off shore with such a tiny boat, but ^still fun though

Ooh... http://www.panga.com/ ...that's nice. (Are you sure it's not 14ft?).

That looks expensive ... or are these US-style low prices (or less)? I want one! (Fight it it's just that fancy American marketing creating a desire for unnecessary things...oh its no good ). Hooh..check out this one: http://www.pangamarine.com/ Love those sun canopies (not exactly essential equipment here, sigh ...lucky we have global warming to look forward too(sic)).


This is interesting, the Panga Story -- what a great idea.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by Fondueset

I've got an Ocean Kayak Malibu2 - it is a GREAT diving kayak - esp for freediving - will seat two adults, stable, sturdy etc. It is 12 feet long and weighs 56lbs though and a bitch to haul around by yourself esp in high winds - with two people it's great. I'd like to get something shorter I can throw in the back of a small pickup.
They make little two wheeled cart thingies you can stick on one end to make them easier to move around - this one would be a candidate for that.

Yeah, I am thinking a Cobra Tandem (expensive ), OK Mailbu 2 or OK side-kick would work best for me. I need a 2 seater...I hear the OK Scrambler XT is well regarded and reasonably priced for a single user. Pity they are still so expensive -- probably because they usually are imported from the USA. Bic France have a nice one too -- unusual design & expensive. Maybe a used one? Yeah the trolley seems a good idea -- all those bits and pieces add up though (as a colleague once said "a billion here, a billion there ...pretty soon soon you are talking real money!" ).