Freedivers safety vest in development

[Jon]

If you read through the whole article it states that it should not be used in any overhead enviroment.

Still waiting to see if I need to take out a second mortage on my house to buy one. If they really are as cheap as a fancy life jacket I just might have to buy two.

Jon

[jimdoe2you]

That's very kind of you Jon, .............I'll give you my mailing address!

[efattah]

Suppose you black out and the vest brings you up, and you're either alone or your buddy is out of range or away. What are the chances that you will actually wake up on the surface? I have witnessed many bad blackouts in competitions where artificial respiration was required in order to revive the diver. In particular, air flowing over the nose is an important factor to waking up. With the vest, you are still wearing your mask upon surfacing. I would think there is a serious chance that you will simply never wake up, and you would just die from brain damage anyway.

If your buddy is around of course he could come and revive you (take off your mask, breathe on your nose or do artificial respiration). But if you don't have a buddy you may be out of luck in the case of a bad blackout (probably okay for a minor blackout).

[Fondueset]

Biggest danger is putting too much confidence in it for sure. Have to come with a pretty extensive disclaimer for sure.

[Hypersquid1]

what is swb?

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by Hypersquid1

what is swb?

Shallow water blackout. If you haven't heard of it, you are in great danger as a freediver. Read either of the books by Terry Mass.

[yugyug]

Originally Posted by Erik

Regarding caves and boats, common sense balanced with bravado (or stupidity) need to be adhered to. You want to freedive deep into caves? Go ahead. If you were deep in a cave (more than 10 metres in ) and this vest inflated by accident, you would easily be able to walk your way along the ceiling with your hands-- there's just not that much lift, especially at depth.
If you're diving around lanes that are used by boats that have a 10' draft ( ), you should have a float and have some situational awareness, ie: "Look around and notice if there are huge boats headed in my direction before my maximum 2 minute dive".
Both of those scenarios are rare and the chance of that vest inflating accidently at that point ...well, I'm no mathematician.

Scubadivers use complex equipment that has many failure points, with a tiny percentage of injuries/death occuring due to equipment failure. 3 reasons come to mind- first, scubagear is put together very well for the most part- second, we train and practice on how to deal with an equipment failure-third, we dive within our limitations and training.

I'll take my chances that if this ever did accidently inflate I'd be brought to the surface and at most pissed off that I missed a fish
Peace,
Erik Y.

nice answer - I figured the chances of those situations I described being pretty low, but thanks for thinking them through.

[David Biron]

Two years ago after the death of Gene Higa at US Nationals 2004 in Hawaii... alot of spearo's started rethinking safety issues. Many idea's were discussed at which time I thought ... why don't we just combine a Suunto D3 with a Co2 life vest ? I drew up plans and did a patent search ($500 ) only to find out just how expensive product development / marketing would be. I'm very happy there were others on the same sheet of music with the financial means to get through the product development stage. I wish them the best of luck with their commercial venture... the product is long overdue. Would'nt be surprised if it quickly became a required item for competition spearfishing.

[Stodelle]

Originally Posted by efattah

Suppose you black out and the vest brings you up, and you're either alone or your buddy is out of range or away. What are the chances that you will actually wake up on the surface? ....I would think there is a serious chance that you will simply never wake up, and you would just die from brain damage anyway.

Not to be a smart-ass, but I definitely think the chances are much better of you waking up on the surface rather than underwater. Of course there will always be the 'what if' factor, but then again, what if you don't make it to the surface? At least it is one additional plus in your favor. I know the chances of revival are much better with mask off, direct air, etc, but just getting the BO'd diver up and on the surface is a big chance at survival.

*edited: typos

[efattah]

Of course you have a much better chance of waking up on the surface than underwater, but the problem is that people start to rely on the vest, thinking that they can 'push' for that fish a little longer because it won't matter if they black out.... the vest will take care of them.... then they reach the surface with mask on, and never wake up. Same thing with the spare air idea.... when you know there is something to bail you out, you go further, deeper, longer, until you die.

[Stodelle]

Good point. I didn't think of that.

I will go out on a limb here and confess my sins. I am the type of person that would probably rely on that. The reason why is because I dive alone ALOT. When I am diving solo, I purposely limit my dives to no more than 1:30. However, when I dive with a partner I will push it more. Mainly because I know there is someone there if the s--t hits the fan.

I know it is wrong, but I see what Effatah is saying. I still think it is a better chance at survival, but I do see the risk involved.

[Bill McIntyre]

I can't agree with Eric.

I know that we are coming from different perspectives. He is a competitive freediver who's sport requires that he push himself to the limits. I'm an old fart who can't imagine what it must feel like to have a chest spasm. I'm just trying to cruise and shoot a fish now and then, but am totally unwilling to push myself to do so.

I can see only an up side to this thing for me. I really don't think it would cause me to push my limits harder because I am so uncomfortable with even the thought of pushing my limits. I think it could only be positive for me in terms of survival.

If you customarily push the edge, then I guess I can see how it might induce you to push it harder, but that is not where I am.

[mattymatt]

Posted this thought on another site today:

After cleaning out a closet in my house I came across my ortovox avalanche transcievers and they got me thinking about the Safety Vest that is in development. I was thinking that when I go dive with friends I usually will look around to see where they are, although probably not as often as I should. I was thinking that a nice feature, albiet more expensive, would be for the wrist computer to be able to communicate with other vests in the area. I know that if SWB were to occur, reaching the surface via the vest is only half the battle, and the person will most likely also need cpr. It would be a neat feature if when one vest deployed it sent out a signal to the other vests in the area, something akin to a flashing red light. This would tell the buddy to swim his ass over and help his friend.

I really don't know to much about the vest, but I thougt that this might add to the vests functionality as a life saving tool. I also know that radio transmiting has gotten much cheaper in recent years (Im a photographer and use tons of radio slaves) and maybe they could incorporate this into the vest. Just a thought.

[hcknudsen]

Or the vest could make h_ll of a noise when activated, this (without my knowing) might even be a wake-up call to the swb victim, I have read several texts on the swb, as I recall all of them state that the vocal cord tightens to prevent any water from entering lungs preventing emidiate drowning, when the surface of divers face feels a breese of wind, it calls the diver back to consiusness since the brain understands this a sign of the airways being free of the water....I think they even suggested that you should´nt use cpr before trying to gently blow on the face of the victim.

please do not trust a word of this or take what I write as anything other than what I recall reading, there are texts to be found on the net written by people who know what they are talking about, personaly hate the topic, it freaks me out.........just wanted to suggest sound on the vest not write an essay

[fcallagy]

Noise on it may be a double edged sword as it may attract attention but might also tell your subconcious your still in danger and your subconcious says ok i,ll stay right where I am. From what I,ve read ( and i,m no expert ) in a black out the mind needs to be reassured that all is now safe again thats why shouting at an unconcious person isn,t recommended. An alert to your buddy would be handy to make them aware but don,t know anything about radio waves etc and whether they might scare off the fishies .