Input on Riffe? Standard Baja Plus vs. Mid-Handle Island

[eGumby]

Looking for input on the comparison of both. I’ve done a lot of research on my new gun and I think I’ve finally got it narrowed to these two. I currently primarily hunt a 48 Special Teak AB Biller w (2) 5/8 bands (threaded & Tahitian free shaft). I love the gun, but I’m looking for some more range. Almost all of my hunting is done SW of Key West in 60’-100’ visibility on the outer reef bar. The fish are wary and several large Muttons, Cubera & grouper frequently stay off the effective range of my 48, so I come back with a lot "a couple more feet and I would have had a great shot" stories.

My impressions on the differences: Baja Plus – nice long-range gun that’s $100 cheaper than the Island. Island – same distance as Baja Plus, but tracks a little better and has a little less recoil than Baja Plus and is $100 more. I’m a little concerned about muzzle lift – not sure if it’s really an issue with these guns and if one has less lift than the other? Most of my shots are generally fully extended – straight arm due to the fish being more wary of my body versus the extended gun (adds a little range). Also, I generally have my 48’s butt stock in-line and slightly resting on top of my forearm at shot time – assuming the Island will provide a similar feel. I’m not sure if the small butt stock of the Baja Plus will give me the same feel at shot time.

Based on my impressions, I’m leaning towards the Island. I’m just not sure if I’m missing anything. Thanks!

[Bill McIntyre]

I haven't used the Baja Plus, but I owned and Island for a few years. It is underweight and overpowered, so it has excessive recoil. If you don't take the time to lock your elbow and wrist and back up the butt with the other hand, it can knock a tooth out or sprain a wrist. Several times when I got off a snap shot, it hit me in the chin very hard and I was glad it wasn't higher.

Because of the recoil and the resistance of your hand on the handle below the plane of the recoil, the muzzle rises and kicks the rear of the shaft up, causing it to shoot low. Many people figure out how high to aim, but its hard to be right every time at every distance, and why deal with it if you don't have to?

The muzzle wing option solves the muzzle flip and makes it accurate, but they also make it hard to maneuver, and they tend to steer the gun if you don't have it pointed straight up or down as you ascend or descend.

However, if your engine quits, the muzzle wings can be used as a paddle to get home.

[eGumby]

Thanks Bill. Any experience with the No Ka Oi? Wondering if it has the same characteristics you experienced with the Island, just scaled down metrics?

Any other recommendations for guns? I predominately hunt high vis areas in the keys. Mostly the larger snappers (mutton & cubera) & groupers. I'll take the occasional amberjack, king & hoo as they pass. My main reason for the new gun is to get in the 20+ effective range for the more wary individuals. You can jump the occasional fish in the keys on the Atlantic side, but a majority of the time they're fully aware you're there.

I noticed you have several Wong guns. Any particular setup that would be good for my situation?

Thanks,
John

[ROBERT REYES]

I like tha baja plus, for your particular use, if i were you, I would use it with a
5/16 , 65 inch hawaiian shaft.
I dont know why you prefer the Riffe , but if that is your case, the c-4 is a good choice for you also.

[Bill McIntyre]

John,

I don't have personal experience with the No Ka Oi, but several guys have used them diving from my boat, and they seem to have the same problem. Some of these guys went to muzzle wings, and others went to a 9/32" shaft. BTW, the 9/32" shaft if another possibility for the Island too. Reducing shaft weight relative to gun weight lets the bands push the shaft forward rather than the gun backward.

It sounds like a 60" Wong Magnum hybrid might work for you. Its the same length as the Island, but has a few inches more band stretch because the trigger mechanism is closer to the rear end, and it has internal ballast to control the recoil. They hybrids are also noticeable easier to swing than my all wood guns. Another Wong choice would be the Mahi. Is 57" long, but has the same band stretch as the Island, and is steady as a rock.

If you want even more range, then the Wong Ono gun or the Super Magnum hybrid, both at 63" length, are possibilities. But those might be overkill unless you are exclusively hunting pelagics in open water.

I suppose I've posted this photo before, but here is my arsenal so you can get a visual comparison.

From left to right-

55" regular hybrid with 9/32" shaft.

57" magnum hybrid with 5/16" shaft. Notice that the butt is deeper than the regular hybrid, and it has lead ballast in the wood, and an enclosed track on the butt section.

6o" bastard hybrid. It started years ago as a regular hybrid. When he started making magnums, I sent it back and he added lead and extra wood to float it. It still has an open track though, and notice that the wood is even shorter than on the 57. If it had started as a magnum, the wood would be longer than on the 57.

60" "ono junior" It was one of a limited number he made years ago without the Alexander muzzle like the one that is on the mahi to its right. The present ono guns would have exactly the same wood, but be three inches longer with the addition of the muzzle.

57" mahi gun. I haven't tried it, but some people tell me that they get away with using four 5/8" bands on it.

Before anyone complains that I'm on commission, there are obviously other brand choices out there. These just happen to be the ones I use and know about.

PS- I just got a 50" Wong with semi-emclosed track to use for calicos and halibut, but I need to take a new photo. So far I've shot one yellowtail with it.

PPS: Yes, I have too many guns. Do you know where I can get professional help?

[eGumby]

Robert & Bill,

Thanks for the input!

The main reason I’ve been leaning towards Riffe is that I’m flying into Key West on 9/5 for 7 straight days of diving. Albeit, not the best reason. We’ll have our own boat down there – just the boys, so we’ll be literally out there all day (overnighting in Tortugas 2 nights). I only recently started thinking about upgrading my gun (self created issue). I know there’s a shop down there with several Riffe models. I’m not aware of any other shops down there that carry similar or better quality guns than Riffe. However, I also don’t want to make comprises on anything that I spend $600 or more on. My assumption is that my "shipped" options are severely limited at this point.

My own short term issues aside, recommendations on guns that would best fit my needs (55"-60" w/ +20’ effective range) regardless of brand?

Also, can someone provide me Daryl Wong’s contact info? I can’t hit his site from work to get it since his URL has "guns" in it. Long shot on the timing, but you never know.

Thanks,
John

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by eGumby

Also, can someone provide me Daryl Wong’s contact info? I can’t hit his site from work to get it since his URL has "guns" in it. Long shot on the timing, but you never know.

Thanks,
John
[/size]

808-373-9138

dmcwong@hawaii.rr.com

[ROBERT REYES]

Any of these guns is going to be such a huge improvement on what you have right now.
I recomended the baja plus, because i have used, last night a friend of mine gave me a call, saying he got a 62 pond yellowfin tuna, with his baja plus,he used 4 bands in it, but the bands are really crowded in there.
You cant go wrong with wong neither. For the big muttons I normally go with a long 130 euro gun.
Are you freediving?

[eGumby]

Bill – thanks for the contact info.

Robert – I predominately free dive. Most days we’ll do a fast scuba drift dive early on the outer most reef in 90’-110’ range. Free dive some hours for interval and do another fast scuba drift dive generally in the 70’-80’ range, decomp and free dive the rest of the day. All my gear is selected on free dive capability – most hours & fish are taken freediving. Heck, I scuba (like many) with my gara’s.

[ROBERT REYES]

Sounds like fun to me.
I do my fishing freediving, these days we cant do it on scuba, but used to long time ago.
Now, I find it a lot more fun freediving, but got nothing against scuba, actually, I think its all the same.

[eGumby]

Thanks for all the input!

Finally made a decision and will have the gun before I hit the water this coming Wednesday. I went with a Wong 55" GR gun. It’s not the exact GR gun listed on Daryl’s site … it’s a 55" carbon fiber, rear handle plus, semi enclosed track with a reel using a 9/32 shaft and 2 different sets of bands depending on the situation. Talked with Daryl quite a while on the phone and he spec’d it out. He was just down in the keys and knew exactly what I was looking for.

I'm completely confident it’s the right gun for me. Thanks again for the responses!

[Pastor]

Originally Posted by Bill McIntyre

PPS: Yes, I have too many guns. Do you know where I can get professional help?

Bill, send them to me! You will feel much better, trust me

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by eGumby

Thanks for all the input!

Finally made a decision and will have the gun before I hit the water this coming Wednesday. I went with a Wong 55" GR gun. It’s not the exact GR gun listed on Daryl’s site … it’s a 55" carbon fiber, rear handle plus, semi enclosed track with a reel using a 9/32 shaft and 2 different sets of bands depending on the situation. Talked with Daryl quite a while on the phone and he spec’d it out. He was just down in the keys and knew exactly what I was looking for.

I'm completely confident it’s the right gun for me. Thanks again for the responses!

That's great. I know you will love it.

Its so great to be able to talk to the guy who will make the gun. He has the benefit of knowing what his customers like in various areas and what works.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by Pastor

Bill, send them to me! You will feel much better, trust me

Will you pay the postage?

[Pastor]

Bill if you give me your gun collection I'll fly over to you and pick them up personally Hell I'll even buy you a drink